Discussion about Palestine

[Cartman]

And exactly where did the name "Palestine" come from? If I'm so stupid why does a Jewish historian state that this text concerns Palestine? You also neglected Ben Gurion's mention of Palestine. As I said too many Jewish "historians" have made up too many stories and like all fairy stories they just don't concur.

You are making up lies again aren't you Truth minimiser? Not only are you a stupid and a liar, you have been caught out, numerous times.
You are not a very good Jew are you, I see you are not shy to desecrate your own Shabbat. LOL

what does me desecrating Shabbat has to do with anything? im not a hassidic jew or even a religious jew, im Secular. (if thats how you say it in english, good translate isnt so great). the roman called this land palestine as an insult to the people who lived here. in the picture you showed they reffered to the land, which wasnt palestine, Palestina. in english it may be kind of similar but in hebrew no so much.
palestine-פלסטין palestinians-פלסטינאים
palestina- פלשתינה philistines - פלשתים
you can see the resemblence between philistines and palestina, which is how the land was called.

 

[senojekips]

Yes, palestinian the land..

But it's not a NATION.

I should ignore this on severl counts not the least of which it is no more than a p!ss weak attempt at trolling,. However,...The dictionary definition of "nation" has already been posted. It was known and written about in the time of Herodotus.

FFS, promise me you will, Wake the Fcuk Up!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

what does me desecrating Shabbat has to do with anything? im not a hassidic jew or even a religious jew, im Secular. (if thats how you say it in english, good translate isnt so great). the roman called this land palestine as an insult to the people who lived here. in the picture you showed they reffered to the land, which wasnt palestine, Palestina. in english it may be kind of similar but in hebrew no so much.
palestine-פלסטין palestinians-פלסטינאים
palestina- פלשתינה philistines - פלשתים
you can see the resemblence between philistines and palestina, which is how the land was called.

There you go, you have just stated that it was called Palestine in the time of the Romans. You and your idiot mates here really need to get your stories straight, as every time one of you flaps your sh!t chute, you effectively shoot down something previously stated by the others.

This is what comes of designing your own version of "history" to suit the available evidence.

I just loved this gem:

haha oh my god you are so stupid
those "palestinians" arent palestinians!

What exactly are you smoking? Whatever it is you need to give up as it has fcuked your solitary brain cell.

 

[Cartman]

I should ignore this on severl counts not the least of which it is no more than a p!ss weak attempt at trolling,. However,...The dictionary definition of "nation" has already been posted. It was known and written about in the time of Herodotus.

FFS, promise me you will, Wake the Fcuk Up!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There you go, you have just stated that it was called Palestine in the time of the Romans. You and your idiot mates here really need to get your stories straight, as every time one of you flaps your sh!t chute, you effectively shoot down something previously stated by the others.

This is what comes of designing your own version of "history" to suit the available evidence.

I just loved this gem: What exactly are you smoking? Whatever it is you need to give up as it has fcuked your solitary brain cell.

its not that hard to understand what i ment... you are just looking for the wrong things in the right sentence. you reffered to the philistines as palestinians from 2500 years ago, which is so unlogical and stupid. thats why the "palestinians" is in inverted commas.

 

[senojekips]

its not that hard to understand what i ment... you are just looking for the wrong things in the right sentence. you reffered to the philistines as palestinians from 2500 years ago, which is so unlogical and stupid. thats why the "palestinians" is in inverted commas.

The spelling of their name is of no consequence whatsoever, it is still proof that the people known today as Palestinians were recognised as such, long before your idiot mates guess of 1964

Also read the article above, your whole invented version of history is a religiously inspired sham.

its not that hard to understand what i ment... you are just looking for the wrong things in the right sentence. you reffered to the philistines as palestinians from 2500 years ago, which is so unlogical and stupid. thats why the "palestinians" is in inverted commas.

The fact is that it is absolutely impossible to understand, Yes,... I can read it but it makes no sense, it is for the most part, like the ramblings of a child trying to convince others of his "invisible friend". So, these "apples" aren't actually apples, and this "web site" is not a web site. Your "logic" is stunning.

The spelling of their name is of no consequence whatsoever, it is still proof that the people known today as Palestinians were recognised as such, long before your idiot mates guess of 1964

Also read the article above, your whole invented version of history is a sham. Particularly this part:

There is no single evidence from reliable sources that any Jewish civilization existed on Palestinian land. There is also no Archeological evidence! The only source Jews rely on is from religious scriptures. Israel has been desperately digging for the so called temple under Muslim mosque for over 40 years without finding one single trace! They were even caught trying to fake it: (Now who would do a thing like that I wonder)?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6753063/

the most telling fact being that the majority of today's Jews are descended from the Khazars and have no connection with the area they falsely claim today. Also supported by Shlomo Sand, Professor of history at your own Tel Aviv University. The "Jewish people" are clearly demonstrated to be most likely a self inspired "invention".

 

[Cartman]

The spelling of their name is of no consequence whatsoever, it is still proof that the people known today as Palestinians were recognised as such, long before your idiot mates guess of 1964

Also read the article above, your whole invented version of history is a religiously inspired sham.

The fact is that it is absolutely impossible to understand, Yes,... I can read it but it makes no sense, it is for the most part, like the ramblings of a child trying to convince others of his "invisible friend". So, these "apples" aren't actually apples, and this "web site" is not a web site. Your "logic" is stunning.

The spelling of their name is of no consequence whatsoever, it is still proof that the people known today as Palestinians were recognised as such, long before your idiot mates guess of 1964

Also read the article above, your whole invented version of history is a sham. Particularly this part: the most telling fact being that the majority of today's Jews are descended from the Khazars and have no connection with the area they falsely claim today. Also supported by Shlomo Sand, Professor of history at your own Tel Aviv University. The "Jewish people" are clearly demonstrated to be most likely a self inspired "invention".

what invisible friend? you keep showing how you read stuff and take every thing that i said and change it into something you want to hear. i told you i am not a religious person. and no proof of a jewish people lived here? really? like the big huge wall in the middle of jerusalem that jews pray infront of him is just a bunch of bricks that came into being with no cause or reason. how many times do i need to tell you?? if you look in leftish sources you will only find anti-israeli material and no equal presantation of both sides.

 

[BritinBritain]

Yes, palestinian the land..

But it's not a NATION.

I don't know what you are smoking, but I really suggest that you give it up.

 

[Cartman]

I don't know what you are smoking, but I really suggest that you give it up.

its just a T-shirt... im sure youll find T-shirts with the same idea in every soldiers closet

 

[Peaceful]

I don't know what you are smoking, but I really suggest that you give it up.

Who was the first "palestinian" king ?
prime minister ?

Thank you for providing evidences "palestine" is a nation.

 

[senojekips]

what invisible friend?

Your "god', that man in the sky who allegedly promised you a land and told Jews they were his "special people".

My god told me you Zionists are idiots, prove I'm wrong.
No,... I've never actually seen him, nor has anyone else, but somewhere I have an old school notebook where his word is revealed to me as his "Special person" on earth.

Of course we all realise your god is real whereas all the hundreds of other deities are imaginary.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,... dream on,...

 

[brinktk]

I've been pondering on this issue for a long time. After years of observation and research I've concluded it is in Israels best interest to keep the US involved with the Middle East as long as possible. Israel will do, instigate, or subverse anyone or anything they can to get them to do their dirty work. The US will never be able to have any type of favorable relations with any Arab/Muslem country until it breaks its' ass kissing of Israel.

We owe Israel nothing. We'd also have a helluva lot more allies in the Middle East if we didn't have Israel as an ally or at the very least treated Israel the same as we treat every other country we deal with. Israel would also likely play nicer with their neighbors if they didn't have the US backing their every move.

As far as I'm concerned, it's time we let Israel fend for themselves. They're a bully state that only acts as it does because they know their "big brother" will bail them out if they bite off more than they can chew. We've put many nations on sactions for equivalent or even less aggression than that displayed by Israel.

What does the US gain by its support of Israel? Seriously...can someone answer this for me?

 

[senojekips]

Who was the first "palestinian" king ?
prime minister ?

Thank you for providing evidences "palestine" is a nation.

In the narrow connotation you are referring to, there has never been a Jewish "nation" either, simply because Judaism is only a religion, not a nationality.

nation
Pronunciation: /ˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
Definition of nation
noun

a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language inhabiting a particular state or territory:

You can p!ss about with semantics, but the fact remains that there is no mention anywhere of having or needing a King, or in fact any "leader" at all.

Thank you for providing evidences (sic) of your idiocy.

 

[Peaceful]

Your "god', that man in the sky who allegedly promised you a land and told Jews they were his "special people".

My god told me you Zionists are idiots, prove I'm wrong.
No,... I've never actually seen him, nor has anyone else, but somewhere I have an old school notebook where his word is revealed to me as his "Special person" on earth.

Of course we all realise your god is real whereas all the hundreds of other deities are imaginary.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,... dream on,...

So it seems - you're a lunatic.

 

[Peaceful]

I've been pondering on this issue for a long time. After years of observation and research I've concluded it is in Israels best interest to keep the US involved with the Middle East as long as possible. Israel will do, instigate, or subverse anyone or anything they can to get them to do their dirty work. The US will never be able to have any type of favorable relations with any Arab/Muslem country until it breaks its' ass kissing of Israel.

We owe Israel nothing. We'd also have a helluva lot more allies in the Middle East if we didn't have Israel as an ally or at the very least treated Israel the same as we treat every other country we deal with. Israel would also likely play nicer with their neighbors if they didn't have the US backing their every move.

As far as I'm concerned, it's time we let Israel fend for themselves. They're a bully state that only acts as it does because they know their "big brother" will bail them out if they bite off more than they can chew. We've put many nations on sactions for equivalent or even less aggression than that displayed by Israel.

What does the US gain by its support of Israel? Seriously...can someone answer this for me?

It seems you don't know how to research.

Without American help, Israel had the 1967 war (go read about it).

It's not like that the USA has to choose between Israel and the Arabs.
The USA has many Arab allies right now.

Without Israel, the USA will have huge problem, I'm sure you'll come up with them yourself.........................

 

[Peaceful]

In the narrow connotation you are referring to, there has never been a Jewish "nation" either, simply because Judaism is only a religion, not a nationality.



You can p!ss about with semantics, but the fact remains that there is no mention anywhere of having or needing a King, or in fact any "leader" at all.

Thank you for providing evidences (sic) of your idiocy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David

"according to the Hebrew Bible and the Qur'an, the second king of the United Kingdom of Israel and according to the New Testament Gospels of Matthew and Luke an ancestor of Jesus"

Need another proof ?

Israel existed before Christianity and therefore before Islam.

 

[brinktk]

I DO know how to research. It's something you have to be able to do in order to have a History degree. Another thing I learned in pursuit of my degree is to look at multiple sources from multiple sides and come up with an objective conclusion. I don't drink the kool aid that the far right would have me believe. I've also spent a lot of time in the middle east and seen how the israeli relationship affects the average, on the ground, arabs perception of the US. It makes a compelling case for them to shoot at my soldiers...

This isn't 1967 either. Israel would not be able to survive on their own today with an even fight against Egypt.

We would not have a huge problem without Israel, it would be quite the contrary. It would give the actual radical muslem terrorists less of a footing if we were at least FAIR in our dealings with Israel. But we're not. We blindly allow them to do as they please. Frankly, I'd prefer the middle east deal with their own problems without US interference. I'd prefer the US military not be used as that regions "stabilizing" force and allow those countries to deal with their own crazies.

Name one Arab country that the US has a "close" relationship with? Our relations with Arab/ Muslem countries from Indonesia to Algeria is tolerable at best. It COULD be much better, but that will be impossible as long as we continue to give preferential treatment to the Israelis.

I think the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty pretty much sums up our relationship with Israel...Even when they belligerently attack our OWN military, we'll cover it up and make nice....Why is that?

 

[senojekips]

So it seems - you're a lunatic.

No, I just don't believe in fairy stories.

I dunno if you are aware of it, but 99.999% of the worlds population don't believe in your god, or what he is alleged to have said, either.

I guess they're all lunatics too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David

"according to the Hebrew Bible and the Qur'an, the second king of the United Kingdom of Israel and according to the New Testament Gospels of Matthew and Luke an ancestor of Jesus"

Need another proof ?

Israel existed before Christianity and therefore before Islam.

Get me the first proof before you go asking about more. Where is the "proof" ,... religious texts are not proof of anything other than your childish gullibility.

 

[MontyB]

This isn't 1967 either. Israel would not be able to survive on their own today with even a fight against Egypt.

I am sorry but I am a little confused here, do you mean "in" a fair fight against Egypt or "even against Egypt"?

However we have yet again managed to get into the cyclic battle of who is at fault but much like the real thing no one seems to have an answer to the problem, I find it hard to believe that your average Israeli or Palestinian wants the mess they have so you would have to assume that somewhere in this there is a solution if you can remove the extremists on either side.

So Cartman, VD and Peaceful how do you bring an end to this idiocy?

 

[brinktk]

I suppose I could have worded that better. I meant that in an EVEN fight against Egypt today, Israel would be defeated. Against Syria, even today with all their unrest, it would stalemate.

I don't care who's at fault any longer... all that gets is a bunch of people who had nothing to do with any of it in the first place dead...It's the zealots, the 5%, that everyone hears...It's about damn time that the reasonable majority voice their concern and put an end to the madness. Finger pointing prolongs the madness. Tit for tat results in no resolution, just more heel planting. Where the hell is the voice of reason? Where is the compromise that is so essential for co-existence? Where has the discussion gone? Where has the reason gone? Where has the voice of the people fed up gone?

But, in America, we don't care because we don't have to. We are so blind to the rest of the world we allow these travesties to happen unnoticed. We complain of a "depression" while we buy cars, watch Fox news or CSPAN from our flat screen LCD TVs, and refuse to read about anything other than what we already believe. We have that luxury. And with that luxury we have lost the most important aspect we as citizens are OBLIGATED to be but are no longer. Informed citizens... We focuse on crap that is meaningless while the greatest issues slip by. We are being robbed blind by both sides of the fence and our "govenrment" answers to no one anymore. Party allegiance, that's what matters anymore. Not reason, not good administration, not compromise, not the constituency that these people represent.

Didn't mean to rant, but I've found myself in a bit of a moral dilemna anymore about why I do what I do...I'm coming to the conclusion more and more that what I thought I was doing as a combat arms soldier of the US military for over 10 years is not what I thought. I thought I was making a difference. I'm starting to realize that perhaps I'm acting on behalf of big business to preserve profit margins and maintain a very small proportion of the populations wealth while myself and my soldiers fight against "insurgents" that are trying to kill me and my men for being in their country... whereas, if any foriegn country were in my country, on my block, I would try to kill them without a doubt and without mercy regardless of their motivations...I'm coming to terms with the fact that perhaps I have been put into situations where I'm not the good guy...

It's that whole objective thing you know...like when you do a self evaluation and look in the mirror. How would the forefathers of my nation feel about what I am doing? I honestly believe they would not be happy. That's what I judge progress by. Since I had my daughter it has changed how I look at myself. Do I raise her to beleive she is entitled and can do as she pleases? Or do I raise her to work hard, use reason and objectivity to reach her goals? In order to do that, self accountability and self evaluation needs to be instilled in her. How can I reasonably do that unless I do that with myself? It makes it hard to fathom that anybody would raise their children in an environment where hate, conflict, and a bleaker world is the concensus. Where an environment where we leave our children in a worse state than we find ourselves in is acceptable. That's not ok with me.

 

[senojekips]

One day politicians in the US (and elsewhere) are going to look at what's going on on the ground in the Middle East and come to the logical conclusion that sacrificing the cream of America's youth merely to satisfy the US Jewish vote and uphold a thoroughly corrupt regime on the other side of the world, whilst embittering every Islamic nation on earth is neither a good idea, nor value for money (blood).

The problem being that we have so badly treated and demonised Muslims and the "evils of Islam" worldwide in the past, that it will take at least a generation, for those who have been traumatised to shuffle off this mortal coil and the truth to become apparent.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for just thinking that such a great a part of the worlds population could be treated as a "non event" to be pushed and pulled wherever we wanted them.

 

[MontyB]

I suppose I could have worded that better. I meant that in an EVEN fight against Egypt today, Israel would be defeated. Against Syria, even today with all their unrest, it would stalemate.

I don't care who's at fault any longer... all that gets is a bumch of people who had nothing to do with any of it in the first place dead...It's the zealots, the 5%, that everyone hears...It's about damn time that the reasonable majority voice their concern and put an end to the madness. Finger pointing prolongs the madness. Tit for tat results in no resolution, just more heel planting. Where the hell is the voice of reason? Where is the compromise that is so essential for co-existence? Where has the discussion gone? Where has the reason gone? Where has the voice of the people fed up gone?

I cant disagree with much of what you say as I think all of us feel our political system has failed us and I doubt many of us can sit down and say the life has turned out exactly as we had planned but although I believe in self evaluation I also think that sometimes we err on the side of negativity rather than trying to build on the positives.

As for the kid, you will if you do your job right instill the benefit of the values that have got you where you are and warn her of those that failed you and she will ignore you and make her own mistakes just as we all did and that is how we all all grow.