Discipline; then and now

Big Z:

I heard that stuff did indeed exist during the Clinton yrs, I have no idea when it started and I have no when it ended or if it did end. Credible folks, so I would assume it was legit at least for a time.
 
Ft. Lost isn't FT. Benning. I can assure you there aren't any stress cards there.

Never said it was, and I think stress cards went away. But like Aiki said they were doing strange things during the Clinton administration. Even at MCRD recruits were being allowed to "refuse to train."
 
If it makes you feel like a real soldier redneck, then fill your boots with showing your commander your dixies that you arn't allowed to use because they will poison you. I'd rather do some real work.
 
Yeah,... Redneck get your sh!t together. Didn't you know that back in the bad old days of kit musters, blokes used used to die from Dixie poisoning all the time.

Standing there on parade one minute, then before you knew what happened, half the formation was dead, just laying all over the CSMs lovely parade ground.

The Australian forces gave up on discipline, because it was making the parade grounds so untidy. That's what happens to "sacks of sh!t"
 
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Alright, alright. This argument here could turn into something ugly, so everyone check their fire.
 
You know when you hold a line and there's sh*t blowing up all around you and you got to stay put, the only damned thing that's going to do that is discipline. Or when you just have to stay perfectly still for hours on end (various situations will call for that). Discipline.
When you're scared sh*tless and you have to do the right thing, discipline.
Obviously training too, but discipline is one of the things that training MUST cover. Not to mention it prevents people dying or getting into accidents from doing stupid sh*t.
Oh yeah, field hygiene - discipline.
Barracks cleanliness - discipline.
Making sure you brought your stuff - discipline.
List goes on.
 
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Having discipline and being disciplined are two different things, as I'm going to assume Wallabies was referring to. Of course, one leads in to the other, but once the troops are doing their jobs right (ie: holding the line, bringing all their kit, etc...), the don't need to be disciplined. They've already got it. I'm sure any military member can appreciate that.
 
Maybe the discipline is not needed. Don't be a sack of **** and they won't have any reason to see if you have all your gear.
To me, it seems that this comment implies that discipline is only needed in the cases of "Sacks of sh!t" and that the persons in the photo must therefore have been considered as such.

I don't agree on either point.

I think that what was depicted in the photo was Standard Operating Procedure at the time it was taken, and was possibly done immediately prior to departure overseas to ensure that every man left with all his kit.

As for the later comment about the "poisonous" Dixies, I just shake my head.
 
Wallabies, discipline is always important.
Unless you're SF or something (in which case I can't comment), I can't believe anyone who says discipline is not important in soldiering.

And Steliga, discipline doesn't just fall from the sky.
 
Let's talk about TTOs

TRAINING TIME OUT

We have TTO in shipboard fire school, give me a break a machinery space fire on a ship is a very harsh environment, so we train for it with velvet gloves because we don't want anyone to get hurt. Because the element of danger is taken out of the training it is not taken seriouly by the students so the screw around and go through the motions.


training Time Out LMAO I dealt with that one time in Orlando in '89, a recruit told me he needed a TTO, I told him " go tell that to the enemy aiming a gun at you"

Thank God I was there for NAVET, cause I'd have been relieved if I'd been a CC, and probably sent to mast, little things like are what happened to discipline in the military.
training should be AS REAL AS POSSIBLE, not a dam joke to be taken lightly, anybody besides me remember the fire on the Nimitz? We didn't take a TTO during that, if we had I wouldn't be here posting this right now.
 
13th, I agree with you, but I'm not sure if you fully grasped my point. I never said that discipline isn't needed in the military. I said that once your troops have gained a high level of discipline (through training, etc...), only minor things are needed to maintain that level of discipline.

Again, having discipline and being disciplined are two completely separate things. Once you've got it, you don't need to be it as much as say...a fresh recruit.
 
But. In all the unit's I have been in you have a constant flow of FNG's moving in and out, except in very rare occasions. Discipline is an ongoing evolution.
 
It is ongoing. Yes, as you get higher in rank a need for rigid discipline does go away. But in the unit overall, discipline must always be enforced.
 
Stelgia worded it better than me, I never meant to give the boot to discipline. I meant the disciplining of soldiers by making sure their socks have smiley faces on it should be kept for basic training.

I'm sure that you have all picked up that every soldier does it tougher than any other. His section did it harder, his platoon, his company, his battalion. It's the biggest pissing contest that goes on. You think it was tough in your day, it was probably tougher before that, and before that. Kind of get over it after a while.
 
Discipline is important of course, overall and in general, however, as individual troops show a high level of self discipline, where they take the initiative and do things that need to be done without being told to do them, they ought to be sort of graduated into a more apppropriate level for them. The fart fart games doing unnecessary discipline type stuff destroys morale IMHO, especially if people are involved that have to play the games who are well disciplined themselves. It's not like the squared away guys are authorized to kill the idiots that keep screwing up. In the beginning of a troopies time in, it might be ok, but after the individual has proven himself, they should no longer be a part of the unit being punished for idiots that screw up. When they punish the whole unit for one, two or three guys screwing up, to me that seems to be encouraging violence against the retards. Another mistake I remember is drill being relied on way too much as the tool for teaching and instilling discipline. Their is no such thing as a one tool fix all for anything human related. We are all different and we learn different. Other things would work better for some folks than marching. Very frustrating sometimes with how stupid the system seemed sometimes to me.
 
The one thing EVERYBODY needs always REMEMBER is that discipline Has been is and always be a necessary part of the military
 
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