dombarber
Active member
Thank you for such an interesting observation !
Difference between a female and male soldier
Thank you for such an interesting observation !
dombarber
Active member
I am certainly old enough :cen:
There are some things that have happen of which the "liberal mass media" would not be happy to hear about.
The first, I read in the US Naval Institute's "Proceedings Magazine" is that US Navy did a study around about the survivability of the USS Samuel B. Roberts (which hit a sea mine) and USS Stark (struck by two Exocet Missiles -only one warhead exploded) with sexuallyhttp://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...XP=1323099697/**http://www.avert.org/stds.htm integrated crews versus all male crews. Sexually integrated crews would have most likely loss one if not both ships! The study concluded that one reason both ships survived is because of the high number of 'young' men! The ability to use massive physical strength and endurance for the first fifteen to eighteen hours was a critical aspect in the survival of both ships.
The second, I also read in the USNI Proceedings Magazine a news conference held Tel Aviv in which the Israeli Army announced that it would not longer have women in front-line combat units. The army spokesman said, "it is without any prejudice against women that we take this action." He went on to say that one responsibility a government has in a conflicts is to limit the number of casualties. To that extent we have found that sexually integrated ground units suffer more combat casualties than all male units. That regardless of the mental conditioning, young men will try and protect young women. Women have a higher casualty rates and young men become casualties by trying to assist female casualties.
While the Israeli Air Force has female aggressor fighter pilots, women are not allowed to fly combat missions. In the IAF all fighter pilots stop flying at age twenty-eight! The IAF feels after twenty-eight pilots are not as daring as they were in their early twenties. Something the IAF tends to keep in mind due to the first three days of the Yom Kippur War on the Golan Heights.
The first, I read in the US Naval Institute's "Proceedings Magazine" is that US Navy did a study around about the survivability of the USS Samuel B. Roberts (which hit a sea mine) and USS Stark (struck by two Exocet Missiles -only one warhead exploded) with sexuallyhttp://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...XP=1323099697/**http://www.avert.org/stds.htm integrated crews versus all male crews. Sexually integrated crews would have most likely loss one if not both ships! The study concluded that one reason both ships survived is because of the high number of 'young' men! The ability to use massive physical strength and endurance for the first fifteen to eighteen hours was a critical aspect in the survival of both ships.
The second, I also read in the USNI Proceedings Magazine a news conference held Tel Aviv in which the Israeli Army announced that it would not longer have women in front-line combat units. The army spokesman said, "it is without any prejudice against women that we take this action." He went on to say that one responsibility a government has in a conflicts is to limit the number of casualties. To that extent we have found that sexually integrated ground units suffer more combat casualties than all male units. That regardless of the mental conditioning, young men will try and protect young women. Women have a higher casualty rates and young men become casualties by trying to assist female casualties.
While the Israeli Air Force has female aggressor fighter pilots, women are not allowed to fly combat missions. In the IAF all fighter pilots stop flying at age twenty-eight! The IAF feels after twenty-eight pilots are not as daring as they were in their early twenties. Something the IAF tends to keep in mind due to the first three days of the Yom Kippur War on the Golan Heights.
I find the ship 'fact' a little implausable; pumps and engines arent run by hand anymore, and there is still bound to be rope and tackle on board.
However there can be no doubting that when it comes down to baseline infantry the men do rise to the top. Perhaps that is a result of hundreds of years of military dicipline geared towards men i dont know.
It is a bit of a distasteful topic but I did read a book about it this year which highlighted the different management styles required and it was very interesting.
However there can be no doubting that when it comes down to baseline infantry the men do rise to the top. Perhaps that is a result of hundreds of years of military dicipline geared towards men i dont know.
It is a bit of a distasteful topic but I did read a book about it this year which highlighted the different management styles required and it was very interesting.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
As is well known, the Soviets used women as tank crews, front line pilots and snipers. I must admit some of the photo's I've seen of them, they were scary.
Spartan613
Active member
Road trauma statistics reveal something that military planners should keep in mind.... Those at greatest risk (in other words, the greatest risk-takers) on the road are males under the age of 25. Studies have shown that in that demographic, the part of the brain that controls risk-taking is not yet fully developed (whereas, in equivelant females, it has). It follows that, seeing as combat is one big risk-taking venture, you would want people with a (albeit mistaken) sense of immortality going toe to toe with the bad guys. Ever hear the motto "Who dares, wins". They made it up for good reason.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
A military history professor at Sandhurst recently stated (when referring to Battler of Britain pilots), "The ideal age for a fighter pilot was 19, at that age they feels invincible."
Sadly, so many of them died during their first sortie.
Spartan613
Active member
True. But that was more due to lack of training. Too many of them had only a few hours in the Spitfire or Hurricane (barely enough to learn how to fly the aircraft properly) and little to no actual "combat training" (how to fight with it).
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
If I remember correctly many only had five or six hours on Spits or Hurricanes before being sent to an operational Squadron. Lambs to the slaughter.
84RFK
Active member
I remember we had some "submariners" ,or "Sardines" as we called them, on the fort while some of ours went on a small trip in their submarine, and the enlisted blokes described the cramped, and humid conditions onboard in a manner that brought the movie "Das Boot" to mind.
During that I suddenly noticed that the sonar technician petty officer standing behind me was actually a female, hard to tell as she was dressed in the same oily outfit as the rest of them, and I came to remember what I just had been told about the sanitary conditions on the submarine....
Only chance of getting a shower was in the machine-room, and that was sea-water.
Still Norway managed to come up with the worlds first female sub-skipper.
Oh, the conditions improved massively when they got new boats around the turn of the century.
During that I suddenly noticed that the sonar technician petty officer standing behind me was actually a female, hard to tell as she was dressed in the same oily outfit as the rest of them, and I came to remember what I just had been told about the sanitary conditions on the submarine....
Only chance of getting a shower was in the machine-room, and that was sea-water.
Still Norway managed to come up with the worlds first female sub-skipper.
Oh, the conditions improved massively when they got new boats around the turn of the century.
Welcome, I hope you enjoy your time here. I hope you can also contribute knowledge to the rest of us.
The greatest problem crew faced was the generators were off-line and the fire fighting foam generator depended upon electricity. When a 'tin can' (destroyers or frigate) runs into a sea mine, just hooking up hoses to pumps get the water out of the hull, over simplifies a difficult the job. The ship had a bad list and sinking deeper and deeper. The fire fighting went on for about fifteen hours before the captain ordered the fire fighting to stop. The water from the fire hoses was causing the ship to sink deeper. Getting the hull fixed was just a plain muscle task.
After the hole in the hull was fixed, as much as possible? The pumps ran for several hours while before starting the use of water hoses to fight the fire then, started using water to pump out the water. I don't exactly when the foam generator came back on-line.
Fixing the compartments which had one of its water tight doors was leaking or, not solidly closed to be secure. Large pieces of wood were used. The crew welded hooks on both sides of the splits above the waterline. Then they used a thick wire and wined (like a shoe lace) to force some of the cracks closed andr closer. Then used metal patches to secure the hull for then.
After 30+ hours, the captain said the crisis is over, the USS Roberts could now be towed to safe waters.
Soviets and the North Vietnamese also had women that were pulled out of front-line units as soon as the war was over. The Soviets saw women in front-line units suffered higher casualties.
Right after the "Tet Offensive" the North Vietnames took over the Viet Cong who lost the battle of Tet very badly. The North Vietnamese pulled women back as one of their first actions.
The Israeli AF feels the same way. At age eighteen eligible young people are inducted. By age twenty-one they could be flying a first line aircraft. By age twenty-eight they are flying a desk. Grounded because the invincibility feeling they had at nineteen no longer exist, replaced by more common sense and, life experiences... people die flying jets! That feeling of being invincible was a significant factor for the IAF to take-on the Syrian forces. Most people would be a little reluctant to attack a ZSU-23-4 working with a SAM-6 in close proximity. The IAF did it for three days and destroyed more than half the ground based anti-aircraft defenses. A quick attack on the oil facility near Damascus by the IAFs F-4s and the Syrian government pulled back the remaining air defense to protect the capital. That left the Syrian armor naked which quickly gave up the Goland Heights.
Yes, from the start accommodations were designed into the so (if in the future for policy changes) female crew members would fit and be comfortable in their subs. The same situations exist on surface ships and, especially the US aircraft carriers. Women have more room in their berthing and bathing areas.
Senior ranking and experienced female supply officers from the surface warfare specialty will attend Submarine Officers Basic Course (SOBC). To proceed to fleet Ballistic Missile (SSBN) and Guided Missile (SSGN) submarines along with the new female submarine line officers beginning in late 2011/early 2012. No mention of SSNs which are far smaller in interior spacing.
The argument the USN uses sea patrols from 77 to 120 days, while the typical patrol is 90 days, is to long for a sexually integrated crew in such a confined space. The USN's SSNs normally have to cross some ocean to start their real patrol work. Most SSK & SSK/AIP's have their patrols close to territorial 45 day as standard time. A long patrol would be 60 days for an SSK. They also patrol close to their territorial waters.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
On some RAF stations there was quite a bit of trouble where there were RAF Airmen and WRAF Airwomen on the same station.
Women and men back in the 1930s and early 1940s, society felt that women were not as good as men in jobs outside the home. Using women in other job function than 'women's jobs' such as sewing, working in service positions, etc. -women's jobs were OK. Being a mechanic, bus drive, a production worker building weapons in a factory, being a pilot shuttling fighters, bombers, etc. raised eye brows, for awhile. That was fine during the war but, when the men came home the American society had changed vastly... not all of the military returnees thought the changes were good.
I was not questioning women's ability to function as well as men in most other respects of war... it is the frontline combat units I was referring to. Young men between 19 to 25 have superior strength and endurance compared to any other age group of either sex.
Last edited:
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Many women carried a number of jobs with greater skill and dexterity then men. That's fact. Over the years I have trained many people to shoot, and with one or two exceptions women were far better pupils and more trainable then men
I agree totally
What I was referring to WRAF causing problems, some WRAF played Airmen against each other. I've seen a few fistfights caused by WRAF's. I had no time for them whatsoever.
Last edited: