Denying The Facts

xUSMCEGA263x

New Member
I was frustrated to hear such petty stupidity on MSNBC. Today on their show "The Last Word" they have slandered a 9/11 history cartoon for being "racist" for stating that the 9/11 Terrorists were in fact, Muslims. Lawrence O'Donnell explained how it is wrong to state the religion of someone who commits a crime, even if they do it in the name of that religion. This is the most disgraceful thing I have heard for a while from MSNBC. Not all Muslims are bad people, but you would be an idiot to ignore the fact that are enemies are for the most part, Muslims! It's like saying the Holocaust wasn't performed under the Ideology of Nazism ( not that I'm necessarily comparing Muslims to Nazis). This to me just shows me how much MSNBC really disgraces the USA with its childish political correctness and biases.

This is the link to the story and the video on "The Last Word" web site: http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/03/7243270-huckabees-911-kids-video-yes-really
 
You cannot even begin to understand media PC, IMHO, until you come to Scandinavia. Even the tabloids are PG-13, and this is NOT about sex. I personally believe there is a difference between media reporting ethics and media PC. Also IMHO, (since I do not consider myself a media expert, just a mere observer), MSNBC, which is, after all, in spite of the generally known and tacitly accepted garden variety "liberal media bias" one can easily correct for, a reputable and mature media organization, was leaning more towards attempting to open up a debate regarding this media reporting ethics rather than to convey a PC message.

I am actually somewhat surprised that in Europe there hasn't been more soul searching within the media after the 22nd July 2011 mass murderous terrorist attack of the Kingdom of Norway...but what can you expect from "Academia" ?!

As an aside observation, I must say that I resented to a certain degree the Duke University expert opinion I heard a couple of days ago that the Norwegian psychopathic terrorist criminal was quite "influenced" by the American media just based on that list of persons and organisations linked to that pathological document that criminal authored. The reality is that he was more influenced by some Internet based sources, of which the American ones are indeed the oldest and most developed ones, but that does not mean that one can blame in an undue generalizing fashion the whole of American media, or even, as that particular expert seemed to imply by his totally careless choice of words, American political discourse & culture. That particular expert should ethically have been much more careful when generating his own 5 minutes sound bite.

I cannot emphasise more the need for clarity after a traumatic large scale incident. I also cannot emphasise more the need for all to learn, and attempt to be selectively critically discriminative when using the Internet for research or information, plus always double check who the heck is the "author" opining or reporting over there, and if in doubt, verify with other reputable info sources, such as established & mature "real" newspapers or TV channels, encyclopedias, scientific or scholarly journals & sites, etc., because:

1. there is much "junk" floating out there with absolutely no informative value;

2. the on-line medium "chatter" itself lends towards a certain background buzzing "noise" of mostly advertising based misinformation one always needs to correct for when attempting to actually learn something new, and subsequently formulate one's own opinions.
 
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Lib bias in the Media, the fact that the Ft. Hood Major & the D.C. Sniper were both Moslem gets downplayed, but emphisizes the Christian orientation on the Norwegian Terrorist.
 
It's getting worse for many Christians in this day and age. Anything about God, Christ, etc... and we get hammered. But Muslims are subject to "racism" and "prejudice" so it gets downplayed now.

I will never understand how one religion can be subject to hate crimes and there's nothing wrong with it, mostly like nothing ever happened.
Another religion has the same crimes against them and they played over and over on the news.

Anyways, just an issue that affects many different people day in and day out, religion is only one example.

*on a side note, everyone notice how the minority has the say now? no more majority rules*
 
I give this example of what is taught in US Universities and Colleges, this is a seminar at the Mahindra Humanities Center of Harvard University in April 2011.

The seminar was titled - Soldiering: The Afterlife of a Modern Experience, and here are the published themes:

From “Cannon Fodder” to “Enhanced Survivability”: The Birth of the Vulnerable Soldier
• ‘Shell-Shock,’ PTSD and Mental Preparedness: Trauma Culture and Its Aftermath
• Army Alpha, Army Beta: Screening, Selection, and the Making of Military Kinds
• From Ethical Lapses to Professional Failings: Soldiering as a Vocation
• Enlightened Occupiers: From ‘Hearts and Minds’ to the Human Terrain Teams
• Armies for Hire: Privatized Defense and Corporate Warfare
• ‘Accidental Guerillas,’ Child-Soldiers, and Other Paramilitaries
• International Soldiers: Military Humanitarianism, Peace Corps, and Human Rights Training
• Identity Politics Goes to War: From ‘Blue Discharge’ to ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ and Beyond
• The Paris-Match Saluting “Negro” and Other Mythologies: the Soldier as Signifier
• Reorganizing the Military-Industrial Complex: New Media and Warfare Simulation

Notice every theme, except maybe the last, is negative. Is it any wonder that our media is biased?
 
Lib bias in the Media, the fact that the Ft. Hood Major & the D.C. Sniper were both Moslem gets downplayed, but emphisizes the Christian orientation on the Norwegian Terrorist.
I would say that that was done purposely in the case of the Muslims, hoping that they could not use the fact that there was strong bias against them on religious grounds. As virtually no Muslim criminal or alleged terrorist could get an unbiased trial with today's attitudes.

I dunno where you get your news from, but I've seen no special attention paid to the fact the the Norwegian nutter was a Christian, except perhaps to show that he was not a Islamist fanatic.

It's getting worse for many Christians in this day and age. Anything about God, Christ, etc... and we get hammered.
And why not. After all, we are 11 years into the 21st century, don't you think that it's time human beings took control of their lives and started acting like adults, instead of frightened animals with beliefs that have not advanced since the dark ages? In that respect Christians are no better than the Muslims.
 
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I dunno where you get your news from, but I've seen no special attention paid to the fact the the Norwegian nutter was a Christian, except perhaps to show that he was not a Islamist fanatic.

The only news I know of is he referred to the Knights Templar of the Crusades. In all technicalities that is Christian, but he did not follow Christian values, his shooting spree and bombing proved that. He, like every belief system out there (including atheists, muslims, budhists, whatever it is.) was a fanatic to that belief. It's just like the Westboro Baptist here, they're a bunch of kooks who took one Bible verse and made that their belief.

And why not. After all, we are 11 years into the 21st century, don't you think that it's time human beings took control of their lives and started acting like adults, instead of frightened animals with beliefs that have not advanced since the dark ages? In that respect Christians are no better than the Muslims.

I'm not going to get into a religious discussion on here, but I do have a quote I want to post.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." -Thomas Aquinas



And going back to the main discussion, any type of media source is going to twist the story to their perspective. It doesn't matter if here in the states, it Left or Right wing media, I don't know if the BBC changes anything, I tend to pay attention more to them, due to American media being a bunch of bull half the time.
 
The only news I know of is he referred to the Knights Templar of the Crusades. ---snip---
So the papers were merely reporting what he said? To me, and I should think. most logical people, that does not constitute christians "getting hammered". It is just reporting the facts.

I'm not going to get into a religious discussion on here, but I do have a quote I want to post.
But you already have, by making a patently false allegation that special attention has been made to his admitted "christian" religious allegiance, over and above that attention given to Muslim nutters.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." -Thomas Aquinas
There is a very logical answer to that. This piece of obfuscationist fancy was made by a follower of a belief that had not advanced since the Dark Ages. So I'll leave you with something a little more modern and i think a lot closer to the truth.

"Faith", is the last resort of those who do not wish to face the truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche, 1884 - 1900
 
But you already have, by making a patently false allegation that special attention has been made to his admitted "christian" religious allegiance, over and above that attention given to Muslim nutters.

I actually did not make that allegation anywhere in my text, you need to fully read and not take bits and pieces out.
I clearly stated the following:

Anyways, just an issue that affects many different people day in and day out, religion is only one example.

There are many situations where people get targeted, no matter what the case.

"Faith", is the last resort of those who do not wish to face the truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche, 1884 - 1900

I would like to know what "THE TRUTH" is. If you can clearly define the truth and state it as fact...
Maybe what he knew as truth was wrong? We won't know until we die. Even scientists aren't sure.

...made by a follower of a belief that had not advanced since the Dark Ages...
Why does a belief have to advance or change? Who says that what you believe isn't being changed or advancing in the wrong direction?
 
I actually did not make that allegation anywhere in my text, you need to fully read and not take bits and pieces out.
I clearly stated the following:
Pardon? Here is your quote verbatim, please tel me how this does not state that christians are being given a hard time in relation to muslims. You clearly state that reporting on muslims gets downplayed whereas christians "get hammered"
It's getting worse for many Christians in this day and age. Anything about God, Christ, etc... and we get hammered. But Muslims are subject to "racism" and "prejudice" so it gets downplayed now.

I would like to know what "THE TRUTH" is. If you can clearly define the truth and state it as fact...
Maybe what he knew as truth was wrong? We won't know until we die. Even scientists aren't sure.

The truth is that which is left once the impossible has been ruled out.

Why does a belief have to advance or change? Who says that what you believe isn't being changed or advancing in the wrong direction?
Firstly, once you are dead, you won't know anything, as your brain will have ceased to function, the complete absense of neurological activity is proof of death.

Belief does not "have" to change, but if they do not advance and seek truth, you may as well have been born without any higher brain function, all you need is that which keeps you alive. If that is what being religious is about, count me out.

Can you name me one belief that has been shown to have "advanced in the wrong direction" (as you put it) for 2000 years?
 
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There is a very logical answer to that. This piece of obfuscationist fancy was made by a follower of a belief that had not advanced since the Dark Ages. So I'll leave you with something a little more modern and i think a lot closer to the truth.

"Faith", is the last resort of those who do not wish to face the truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche, 1884 - 1900

Warning ! Off topic tangent, (since I am a dupe who easily falls prey to this type of flaming) !

I just felt the need to correct a bit the wrong impression about Thomas Aquinas that some younger or more impressionable forum members may formulate for themselves.

(I absolutely hate philosophy myself, mostly because I am too lazy to try to figure out what those men one calls professional philosophers mean by using abstract words one needs to actually use time to look up in dictionaries and encyclopedias before figuring out what they really meant, plus it is my admittedly naive, and also probably superficial and judgmentally biased opinion that reading or thinking too much about philosophy, especially while smoking pot at the same time, can be actually quite detrimental to one's health, plus I also think that many philosophical quotes have not only been misunderstood, but also never adequately explained to the general population, and also possibly misused in unethical ways).

What I wanted to say about Thomas Aquinas was that, although indeed he was a Christian monk, he is also considered a very important scholarly philosopher in the history of the liberal arts discipline named philosophy, and that he is actually considered as someone who carried forward and explained for the Middle Ages historical period living people, (who indeed were living in what is also called the "Dark Ages", or obscurantist times), the teachings of another important philosopher who lived even way earlier in ancient Greece, named Aristotle.

I am aware that Thomas Aquinas may have argued with some of Aristotle's views, but this is not unusual among philosophers, because I have noticed, by reading mostly on wikipedia, that since the very beginning and up to our days, most professional philosophers are typically very narcissistic, (in the sense that most actually enjoy gazing at their own navel more than in an actual mirror), and each seems to wish to be recognised as the sole unique holder of "the truth" and of "understanding", and that all other philosophers are or were a little dumber than them, if not totally wrong. And, although I haven't studied this in depth, I do not really have a particular reason to doubt that Thomas Aquinas, although a Christian, may make exception to this observation of mine.

Whether one argues or agrees with Thomas Aquinas, or Aristotle, or Kierkegaard, or Nietzsche for that matter, was NOT the point of my convoluted post. The point was that I wish to actually confess that I myself have held a bad opinion for quite a long time about Nietzsche just based on the prejudice that he wrote that totally stupid quote "God is dead", (as if God could ever be, if He existed, a biological organism that lives and dies), and the fact that he suffered from chronic severe mental ilness, not to mention that, while he himself despised anti-semitic people, he seems to have influenced another philosopher, named Martin Heidegger, who not only later became a member of the Nazi Party, but also had, while being married, inappropriate and unethical sexual relations with his female students, regardless of their religion, at least one of whom, Hannah Arendt, was unfortunately adversely affected, IMHO, terribly, because of that. But then, more recently, spurred by a challenge, I read some more on wikipedia, and I found out that not only Nazis, but also French Socialists have acclaimed Nietzsche, and not only was he liked by Mussolini (a fascist), but also by General de Gaulle (who, I believe it would be safe to say, hated the French socialists), and even Mr. President Theodore Roosevelt (a progressivist Republican, who was the gentlest one of all and who I doubt hated anyone, except maybe fools, and surely extremists & psychopaths)...so that is to say...I had then to slightly modify my initial prejudice held against that philosopher, and the way I did that was to say to myself that, after all, he was just a human being like everyone else, thus prone to error, and to illness, just like Thomas Aquinas was, or just like you and me...

...the final point being that I do not think it is ethical to use quotes from professional philosophers to make political points unless one is actually a political philosophy student engaged in a debate which counts for one's GPA, because in other contexts then lazy people like myself have to do a lot of volunteer work on-line in order to:

1. encourage people to read from wikipedia before they utter one more word in public on the Internet, where I wish to reming everyone that underage persons may be lurking, and I think there may be a risk of unethically biasing young people's brains by pitting Aquinas vs. Nietzsche, or religion against atheism, when this whole thread is mostly about political opinions on the mass media;

2. create scholarly kindergarden level diversions in order to prevent yet another "ideological" Internet forum "flame war" (I hate fire);

3. encourage everyone to not be afraid to take philosophy courses for college credits, but PLEASE take everything they say with 3 big grains of salt, and DO NOT use cannabis while researching for the term papers.
 
I would say that that was done purposely in the case of the Muslims, hoping that they could not use the fact that there was strong bias against them on religious grounds. As virtually no Muslim criminal or alleged terrorist could get an unbiased trial with today's attitudes.

I dunno where you get your news from, but I've seen no special attention paid to the fact the the Norwegian nutter was a Christian, except perhaps to show that he was not a Islamist fanatic.

And why not. After all, we are 11 years into the 21st century, don't you think that it's time human beings took control of their lives and started acting like adults, instead of frightened animals with beliefs that have not advanced since the dark ages? In that respect Christians are no better than the Muslims.

My hat is off to you, my friend. You are stepping on some "sacred calfs.
 
We seem to be getting deeper and deeper into philoshphy and religion. I say a modern military should be a-political and secular as far as possible. In the best tradition of these a-politicians and secularest “Dam the torpedoes, and full speed ahead" -let us find the bad guys/girls and once Identified as truly “bad guys/Girls” we kill them. We can sort their particular heaven out afterwards but the immediate problem is solved, at least temporarily.

A “modern” infantry may ride sky vehicles into combat, fire and sense its weapons through instrumentation, employ devices of frightening lethality in the future -- but it must also be old-fashioned enough to be iron-hard, poised for instant obedience, and prepared to die in the mud.... If liberal, decent societies cannot discipline themselves to do all these things they may have nothing to offer the world. They may not last long enough.
 
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My hat is off to you, my friend. You are stepping on some "sacred calfs.
My friend, sometimes it just has to be done to avert some sort of self induced mass hysteria. It seems we all need to have our feet bought back to earth every now and again, otherwise people start to actually believe their own misinformation.

Warning ! Off topic tangent, (since I am a dupe who easily falls prey to this type of flaming) !
.
I have been subject to this criticism before , but I deny any "flaming" as I am merely correcting misinformation being diseminated. If you care to look, the subject of this thread is "Denying the facts" and as such, I am well and truly within the bounds of that description.

I see the inference that christians are "getting hammered" in comparison with reporting on muslim acts of terror as blatent and patently erroneous. I don't think that I have picked up a paper since 9/11 where there was not some muslim(s) being hung out to dry on the basis of their religion, whether they be an accused terrorist or a mother's club wanting to run a school fete.

The case of Anders Breivik is one of only very few involving christians and I certainly don't see any more attention being paid to the alleged religion of the perpetrator than happens in the case of muslims, if anything, somewhat the reverse.

This unwarranted defensiveness is so typical of religions per se. They all claim that only their philosophy is correct and everyone else will "go to hell", be it Catholic against Protestant, Conformist against Non Conformist or Sunni against Shi'a or whatever. They castigate and abuse one another's beliefs, and as we have seen in the past, gladly commit acts of incredible violence, hatred and mass murder in defence of their views, (Bosnia, back to the Crusades).This is particularly noticeable among those who dare to have different beliefs about the same god, but they still maintain that they are "good" christians, sunnis or whatever.

I could gladly go on for a week about this, but knowing that long posts are generally only skimmed or ignored I will stop at this point.
 
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I am going to leave the conversation at this, to make you think, even if you don't agree.

The truth is that which is left once the impossible has been ruled out.

How can you tell me that a god is impossible? You cannot state anywhere here that there is enough fact with that argument to tell me that there cannot be existence of anyone's god. I'm stating this for every faith, not just my own, you cannot say with pure and unobjectionable knowledge that there is no god.

Firstly, once you are dead, you won't know anything, as your brain will have ceased to function, the complete absence of neurological activity is proof of death.

I want you to prove to me that you won't know anything after you die... Or that death of the body is the end of the line. If you can, I will call you the smartest person on earth.
 
I am going to leave the conversation at this, to make you think, even if you don't agree.
I've had 64 years of thinking, and I can't see that i would change if I had ten times that again. Hopefully by then humankind will have well and truly seen through this stupid crutch that some people need to get through life.
How can you tell me that a god is impossible? You cannot state anywhere here that there is enough fact with that argument to tell me that there cannot be existence of anyone's god. I'm stating this for every faith, not just my own, you cannot say with pure and unobjectionable knowledge that there is no god.
It's really easy if you care to use your eyes, ears and some logic.

I want you to prove to me that you won't know anything after you die... Or that death of the body is the end of the line. If you can, I will call you the smartest person on earth.
That's really easy, and it certainly doesn't even take a "smart" person,... just a person who is willing to accept the truth.

(1) When you die, all neurological activity ceases, this is a recognised fact and is used to define the actual point of death. No neurological activity,... no memory.

(2) In 1997-8 I had an extreme allergic reaction to a bee sting and was clinically dead for several minutes. I don't remember seeing, god, or a white light, or having an "out of body experience". All probably because, I was clinically dead.

As for death being "the end of the line". You could certainly convince me, by trying it out,... that, combined with your alleged knowledge that you have retained after death, you can come and tell me all about it. If so I will believe you.
 
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I am going to leave the conversation at this, to make you think, even if you don't agree.{/quote]

(1) When you die, all neurological activity ceases, this is a recognised fact and is used to define the actual point of death. No neurological activity,... no memory.

(2)
As for death being "the end of the line". You could certainly convince me, by trying it out,... that, combined with your alleged knowledge that you have retained after death, you can come and tell me all about it. If so I will believe you.

(1) What about the spirit ?

(2) Naah - It's been done before.
 
I dunno where you get your news from, but I've seen no special attention paid to the fact the the Norwegian nutter was a Christian, except perhaps to show that he was not a Islamist fanatic.

The Age newspaper, SMH, Herald-Sun, chanel 7's Sunrise, Canberra Times cited him as a fundamentalist or right wing Christian - and they're just the ones I saw or read.

US media was the same, especially the New York Times.
 
The Age newspaper, SMH, Herald-Sun, chanel 7's Sunrise, Canberra Times cited him as a fundamentalist or right wing Christian - and they're just the ones I saw or read.

US media was the same, especially the New York Times.
And so he was, and probably still is,.... that is no more than reporting the news. The assertion by Big_T87 was that christians were being unfairly "hammered' in comparison to Muslims when featuring in the news.
It's getting worse for many Christians in this day and age. Anything about God, Christ, etc... and we get hammered. But Muslims are subject to "racism" and "prejudice" so it gets downplayed now.

I see no more bad press being given to Breivik's religious affiliations than is done with other religious nutters, more likely somwhat the reverse.
 
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Interesting point actually, what may be even more interesting is the things no longer mentioned in the news.

After ABB was arrested, the reports about a a man with strong right-wing beliefs, a self proclaimed Christian with somewhat peculiar stance towards the commanments, a devoted Zionist and a Freemason surfaced in the news here.

His actions made no sense, and thus he's been labeled a nutter of some sort.
We classified it terror, and not just crime, but we're still questioning his sanity.
The Freemasons were quick to denounce him from their ranks, and that's the last we heard about the Freemason-connection.
As for the Zionist part.....it got deadly quiet.

So we're left with a lone nutter with Christian belief, and extreme right-wing sympathies...
 
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