Democracy 'not needed' in Russia

Zastava-Arms said:
What, do I look like Marx or Lenin to you, Captain America?

It would work but you would need to put one schitt load of work behind it and organisation.
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even if you did some one would have a power trip manipulate the system and there you go again its a dictatorship...
 
Well if one was so strongly in favor of Communism, you'd have at least a vagueidea as to how it would be implimented.
I had a Belgian friend once who back then favored Communism and the key line he used was "we have to change people's thinking." He meant the way we think as individuals should be changed. I made sure I wasn't taking it out of context.
Who has the right to tell you or I what we value and what motivates us? Sure there are some limits within the constraints of law but what he said required just about everyone to have exactly the same motivations and desires.
If you are a Communist, you have the right to be one.
If you do not favor Communism, you have the right to that as well.
In a capitalistic society, you can still go off with like minded individuals and create a Communist society... maybe start a new town somewhere with like minded individuals who don't believe in materialism. If you get enough people with the appropriate diverse skills, you might even be able to give real Communism a try. NOTHING is stopping you from doing this. No one will shoot or imprison you for doing this either, at least, not the government.
 
For one, im not a communist. Call me half-half if you want, I think a society with a mix of Capitalism/Communism would be pretty good.
 
a social democracy with a free market and im sold and that means your probably in australia...
i think we have the balance no matter which major party is running the place
 
In a capitalistic society, you can still go off with like minded individuals and create a Communist society... maybe start a new town somewhere with like minded individuals who don't believe in materialism. If you get enough people with the appropriate diverse skills, you might even be able to give real Communism a try. NOTHING is stopping you from doing this. No one will shoot or imprison you for doing this either, at least, not the government.
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Is this really true in America? Think McCarthyism, and the attitudes to the milder Chilean Socialist (not communist) government.

How would a right wing neighbourhood react to a commune being set up in their backyard? Is it really practically possible in America to set yourself up as a Communist candidate?

If there is a move to the left which I doubt in the short term, it will be in the form of Eco-socialism, where the population realises that unsustainable growth is not an option on a planet with limited resources. How you overturn the power of the media and corporate controlled political system, with their brainwashing memes of 'consumerism will make you a better person' I'm not sure.
 
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Is this really true in America? Think McCarthyism, and the attitudes to the milder Chilean Socialist (not communist) government.

How would a right wing neighbourhood react to a commune being set up in their backyard? Is it really practically possible in America to set yourself up as a Communist candidate?

If there is a move to the left which I doubt in the short term, it will be in the form of Eco-socialism, where the population realises that unsustainable growth is not an option on a planet with limited resources. How you overturn the power of the media and corporate controlled political system, with their brainwashing memes of 'consumerism will make you a better person' I'm not sure.-perseus

and as for the true communist society it might work in australia on a very small scale with very like minded pepole butthis can only work when each group in that society needs each other to survive this is why large scale communism doesn't work

i think the Eco socialists are pretty good at their own brain washing.you know algore and and his hockey stick that replaced history and the 120 years of emissions that set off a 5000 year trend of global warming starting 5000 years ago...
although i do agree on the fact we have finite resources and will need to move onto a more sustainable and efficient economy that it is just logical but for the big companies it means less instant money its sad they will actually have to work for there money lol
and it is also sad that in order to get society to change they find it necessary to lie and manipulate just like the big companies did to make there money in the first place
 
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Zastava-Arms said:
Well sunshine, why dont you just google it?
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I can't google your opinion as to how Communism (and what kind) should be implimented and how it would be made to work from establishment through maintenance.


Perseus, your answers in bold.

perseus said:
Is this really true in America? Think McCarthyism, and the attitudes to the milder Chilean Socialist (not communist) government.
McCarthyism is a thing of the past. Yes, there are people who dislike Communism, but you will find that there are many who like it. As long as you don't beat your chest about it and don't intend to cram that ideology on the neighboring towns you might do quite well. In fact, in order to keep yourselves Communist, you'll find that it may be very necessary to isolate yourself from the Capitalist world around you.

How would a right wing neighbourhood react to a commune being set up in their backyard? Is it really practically possible in America to set yourself up as a Communist candidate?
Who says anything about their back yard? Who says you should run as a Communist candidate? Don't. I thought Communism in its purest form wasn't supposed to have a government. You don't need a Communist candidate to go and start a brand new town with like minded inviduals. There maybe right wing neighborhoods, but obviously you've never been to Berkeley. Also, you'll have to start this town far away from cities and towns as well or else you'll be interacting with Capitalism and that's going to mess up your system.

If there is a move to the left which I doubt in the short term, it will be in the form of Eco-socialism, where the population realises that unsustainable growth is not an option on a planet with limited resources. How you overturn the power of the media and corporate controlled political system, with their brainwashing memes of 'consumerism will make you a better person' I'm not sure.
Actually, what's funny is capitalism is the main driving force behind the current "Green" industries. General Electric is one of many companies who have found that their high tech manufacturing capabilities have given them a competitive edge in wind turbines. There is a financial incentive towards being more efficient. The demand for wind energy is higher than ever before and the driving force is not socialism. It's economics and technology... it's all a part of capitalism.
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If you've read my posts you'll know that I'm hardly a big fan of pure captalism and I believe that there are some things that should not be privatized and we have had some pretty hard discussions about that here. I understand that it is the only system that generates any substantial wealth and I understand that state-run programs do run at a loss practically as a rule.

Back in the days, hippies who were sick of the materialistic world actually did set off to create their own communities. They found that agriculture and other natural means of life were MUCH harder than they had ever suspected. Many communities faced starvation. But at least they had the balls to go out and do what they believed in.

People who claim Communism can work have opportunities to prove their claim. Don't just think of the US. Think of Canada and Australia which have lots and lots of extra land. You'll find that there are many areas in which a trip to your nearest neighbor could be a 6 hour drive away (or more!). You could get like minded folks and GO there and set up your own community. Don't beat your drum, just go and settle down. No one will stop you. Just make sure you do the paperwork to prove that you guys make NO money and have no property so you stay tax exempt.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
I can't google your opinion as to how Communism (and what kind) should be implimented and how it would be made to work from establishment through maintenance.
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Oh, you were asking for my opinion. I was under the impression you were asking me about how the Fudge communism would work.


Well I THINK [I repeat: THINK] Communism would be "reached" if every single country in the world had a Leftist government.

Thus I reckon that, seeing as everybody who is capable of working in a workplace WILL be working, and they wouldnt be lazing around, slowly the amount of items available will increase and everything will become pretty cheap to the point that you can give it out for free to people [i.e the Proletariat]. So, seeing as all means of production would be state-owned the government would be able to make sure everyone is getting what they need.

I dont really beleive in the theory that:

If Daniel has 5 cow's and Joey has 1, then Daniel will have to give 2 of his cow's to Joey so they both have 3.
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I think people should get what they NEED and what is ESSENTIAL for their culture/lifestyle/work. I mean, why on Earth should somebody living in Munich or Stockholm need a cow/pig etc etc?

Let me give a few examples:

Abdul lives in a small town in Kuwait. He works at a oil refinery. Thus, to suit his need's, Abdul would:
- Be driving a 4x4 vehicle instead of something like a Mazda 6 or a Ford Mustang
- Would get more reliable and "sturdy" clothes for his work instead of a business suit or pocketed shirt
- Would get more of the type of food you would find in that area [i.e Kebab's perhaps? I dont know anything about the food in that region] instead of getting lots of Spagetti, Stroganoff, Burgers etc

That's all I can really think of at the moment. I know there are probably a bunch of problems with what I said but hey, I dont think about this everyday. I aint a Communist.
 
It's a start.
Feed back is in bold.

Zastava-Arms said:
Oh, you were asking for my opinion. I was under the impression you were asking me about how the Fudge communism would work.
Yes.


Well I THINK [I repeat: THINK] Communism would be "reached" if every single country in the world had a Leftist government.

Thus I reckon that, seeing as everybody who is capable of working in a workplace WILL be working,
It's a bit of a stretch. If anything, leftist parties tend to reduce the amount of work the workers do (shorter hours, more holidays, more benefits).
and they wouldnt be lazing around, slowly the amount of items available will increase and everything will become pretty cheap to the point that you can give it out for free to people [i.e the Proletariat].
You mean you'd have to pay for it in the beginning? How's that supposed to work when you don't get paid?
So, seeing as all means of production would be state-owned the government would be able to make sure everyone is getting what they need.
You seem to have a lot of faith in the government. If everything is state owned, it means the state (i.e. government) owns everything. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. At least in a capitalist and democratic system, everyone is in conflict with one another thus does a better job of preventing this than any other system.


I think people should get what they NEED and what is ESSENTIAL for their culture/lifestyle/work. I mean, why on Earth should somebody living in Munich or Stockholm need a cow/pig etc etc?
They used to.
So you mean the people who have easier lifestyles stay that way and those with harder lifestyles also stay that way with no hope of ever improving things for them?

Let me give a few examples:

Abdul lives in a small town in Kuwait. He works at a oil refinery. Thus, to suit his need's, Abdul would:
- Be driving a 4x4 vehicle instead of something like a Mazda 6 or a Ford Mustang
- Would get more reliable and "sturdy" clothes for his work instead of a business suit or pocketed shirt
What about clothes for when he's not working?
- Would get more of the type of food you would find in that area [i.e Kebab's perhaps? I dont know anything about the food in that region] instead of getting lots of Spagetti, Stroganoff, Burgers etc
Do you eat food only associated with Australia?

That's all I can really think of at the moment. I know there are probably a bunch of problems with what I said but hey, I dont think about this everyday. I aint a Communist.
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It's a bit of a stretch. If anything, leftist parties tend to reduce the amount of work the workers do (shorter hours, more holidays, more benefits).
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Depend's on the job. If it's a job where machinery does most of the work then yes, I guess that is true.

You mean you'd have to pay for it in the beginning? How's that supposed to work when you don't get paid?
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Who said they wouldnt get payed? People got payed in the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Hungary etc etc. Im saying that eventually money wouldnt be needed as much as it used to be.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the government. If everything is state owned, it means the state (i.e. government) owns everything. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. At least in a capitalist and democratic system, everyone is in conflict with one another thus does a better job of preventing this than any other system.
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I think the head of state shouldnt be the Head of Party, but a elected senate. Sort of like what the Roman's used to have. This way nobody would have too much power.

They used to.
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They sure did. Your point being?


So you mean the people who have easier lifestyles stay that way and those with harder lifestyles also stay that way with no hope of ever improving things for them?
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I dont see how giving people what they need gives them a hard lifestyle.

What about clothes for when he's not working?
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Thats why I said "For his work". For when he is not working they should get whatever suits them. If they like to wear jumper's in the desert then so be it.

Do you eat food only associated with Australia?
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Australia is fortunate enough to be a multi-cultural society. There are many Greeks, Lebanese, Asians, Samoans, Tongans etc. So naturally, they bring their fine delicacies to us.

In Serbia when I lived there, however, we arent so multi-cultural. We usually eat food that originated from the Balkan/Eastern/Central European regions [We also eat a lot of Turkish foods. It kind of stuck when the Ottoman Empire occupied us for about 500 years].
 
and look what happened to the romans...
military dictator ship lol
or are you imagining a grand empire of communism...
 
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