Define a terrorist.

chrischance

Active member
I have been in the company of many international terrorists. ETA (Basques); IRA, UVF, Arab and various east European murderers. Most of them were psychopathic killers, others were quite well educated, were fluent in various other languages and firmly believed in their cause.
However, there are those who hide, feed and help terrorists and we generally call them sympathisers. Maybe they were threatened with torture into helping terrorists; depending on location... probably not.
I realise that prisoners are not the ideal cross section of the community to draw opinions from, but from my cell window in Malaga prison, I felt sick as I watched hundreds of Arabs in the prison yard dancing with joy as the Twin Towers came down on that dreadful day. Should we call them terrorist sympathisers?
I am concerned about the number of people I see entering my country who look just like the ones who danced with joy.
I know they are not terrorists, but I also know that in their eyes I am the infidel because I am British.
 
To me, "Terrorist" is merely another label. No better or worse than the labels, Racist, Communist, Homophobe and a hundred others, often bandied about fairly carelessly, or at least with only one's own point of view making the difference. Hence the saying, "One man's Terrorist is another man's Patriot".

I probably use the term as often as everyone else, and have my own set of values that I apply to come to the conclusion that a person is or os not a terrorist, however I have no doubt that my view is not shared by every one.

When asked to describe a terrorist, it's a bit like trying to describe the colour Blue to a blind man. I have my own idea of what it is but I doubt that I could describe it to a man who cannot see.
 
One can terrorize other people without being a terrorist- or is that also a certain form of Terrorism? :bang:
 
It's a very murky thing and I believe that the Press and our governments use it too easily. Irregular soldiers who engage and kill our soldiers are NOT conducting an act of terrorism. That's war. They're doing their thing.
Of course this is very different from a guy with a bomb vest blowing up a bus full of innocent civilians.
Of course those are the two extremes of the spectrum but there are the ones where it gets blurry. However, if innocents were killed and they were not intended to be harmed, I wouldn't say that would count as an act of terrorism. Then, you have a case where some smart ass gets a bunch of hostages and puts them right next to high value targets. Just brilliant...
 
Looking back to WW2 you would consider most of the civilians of the "Volkssturm" as terrorists as well...
 
One seemingly reasonable definition of the word terrorist is here

One who utilizes the systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political objectives, while disguised as a civilian non-combatant. www.aeroflight.co.uk/definitions.htm

However, this only fits when they are on the opposite side. If they are they are same side then they are usually called something like a freedom/resistance fighter as in this interesting alternative definition:

often names for rebel, revolutionary, or folk heroes, especially by oppressive governments
www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/d/o/u/Doublespeak.html

Note, the transformation from the most repulsive to the greatest hero depending on what you believe. Also, neither definition easily excludes undercover agents and bomber crews since these have both destroyed pure civilian targets and use either physical disguise or technological stealth as part of their actions.
 
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I have been in the company of many international terrorists. ETA (Basques); IRA, UVF, Arab and various east European murderers. Most of them were psychopathic killers, others were quite well educated, were fluent in various other languages and firmly believed in their cause.
However, there are those who hide, feed and help terrorists and we generally call them sympathisers. Maybe they were threatened with torture into helping terrorists; depending on location... probably not.
I realise that prisoners are not the ideal cross section of the community to draw opinions from, but from my cell window in Malaga prison, I felt sick as I watched hundreds of Arabs in the prison yard dancing with joy as the Twin Towers came down on that dreadful day. Should we call them terrorist sympathisers?
I am concerned about the number of people I see entering my country who look just like the ones who danced with joy.
I know they are not terrorists, but I also know that in their eyes I am the infidel because I am British.


I share your concerns Chris. Nuff said.
 
I realise that prisoners are not the ideal cross section of the community to draw opinions from, but from my cell window in Malaga prison, I felt sick as I watched hundreds of Arabs in the prison yard dancing with joy as the Twin Towers came down on that dreadful day. Should we call them terrorist sympathisers?
I am concerned about the number of people I see entering my country who look just like the ones who danced with joy.
I know they are not terrorists, but I also know that in their eyes I am the infidel because I am British.

The problem is that if you were in prison in America, Australia, New Zealand and much of Western Europe you would have seen a lot of white guys with swastika tattoo's, shaved heads and all sorts of neo-nazi ideas would you draw the same conclusion of European races?

It is very easy to stereotype especially when you are in a place where these stereotypes are concentrated (aka Prison) but the reality is somewhat different.

Yes it is important that nations manage immigration so as not to alienate their population but I believe it would be even more dangerous to promote separatism.
 
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Good point Monty, but I bet they didn't dance with joy when the Twin Towers came down.I could go on about this but I will finish with the fact that the UK Islamic terrorists came from their own self made enclaves where the indigenous population are no longer welcome and indeed are downright dangerous to enter.Terrorism is something we must learn to live with. It is also something we must learn to eradicate: paradox.
 
Correct Chris, and each and every day we still bring in more and more of those who are basically our enemies in today's world. They wish to defeat us by population in this particular country, and our current regime appears intent, as always, in making sure that this happens. Quite incredible. We are being undermined unmercifully by our government, in the face of the obvious problem they are creating in their search for votes to retain their slimy regime. We have been governed by traitors, who planned to change the order, since 1997. Mind you, they always threatened they would.

A couple of days ago I posted that the problem had not reached this small market town. Yesterday I saw that I was wrong, that we already have an entrenched minority obviously flexing their muscles.

The imposed culture change has now reached reached the furthest outposts, and this town will never be the same again.

If only we could welcome them as friends, arriving here to join us and share what we have to offer in harmony. Unfortunately we know that they intend overwhelming us culturally. A great pity, but we have to face the truth.
 
Good point Monty, but I bet they didn't dance with joy when the Twin Towers came down.I could go on about this but I will finish with the fact that the UK Islamic terrorists came from their own self made enclaves where the indigenous population are no longer welcome and indeed are downright dangerous to enter.Terrorism is something we must learn to live with. It is also something we must learn to eradicate: paradox.

I think you are confusing terrorism with government failure on immigration and policing, every country I have ever been in has enclaves of immigrants including this one (not all Muslim) it is just a fact of life nationalities seem to gravitate toward each other in an unknown environment and yes I believe it is something that should be prevented.

Terrorism is not something we need to learn to live with at all, in stable affluent countries terrorism is less prevalent than drunk driving, murder, rape and countless other crimes and yet we persist in allocating it a huge amount of resources when in most cases throughout the western world it is little more than a routine police matter.

Here are a couple of questions for you:
1) Why is there a difference in perception between IRA terrorism and Islamic terrorism?
2) Why is France so successful in handling its immigration and counter terrorism processes?
 
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I'd say a terrorist is someone or something who uses violance and threats to intimidate others and coerce obedience, often by exploiting human fear, anxiety, etc. I think a terrorist, at its purest meaning, has no color, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc. It is a universal term and can be applied to all legal entities; starting from the individual and group level all the way up to state or even alliance level.
 
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I'd say a terrorist is someone or something who uses violance and threats to intimidate others and coerce obedience, often by exploiting human fear, anxiety, etc. I think a terrorist, at its purest meaning, has no color, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc. It is a universal term and can be applied to all legal entities; starting from the individual and group level all the way up to state or even alliance level.

True but that also describes most police forces.
 
If you go into the wording of it, it's hard to tell.
But if you had to go against any of them you'd probably be able to tell a little better.
 





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Guilty: Abdulla Ahmed Ali, Assad Anwar and Tanvir Hussein






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Suicide threat: Abdulla Ahmed Ali in his video rant

Ah yes; terrorists, supposedly British home-growns with no allegiance to anything British, living a lie amongst the folk of their homeland. Traitors and commiters of treason in fact.


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Bomb-making kit: The jury saw this police photo of a box containing jars
Disturbing links have also emerged between the group and a secretive Muslim sect which is lobbying to build Europe's biggest mosque in the shadow of the London 2012 Olympic site.

<DIV class=thinArtSplitter>Tablighi Jamaat is an ultra-orthodox movement which has its UK base in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, the home of 7/7 ringleader Mohammed Siddique Khan.
Both he and fellow 7/7 bomber Shezhad Tanweer were thought to attend the mosque. Richard Reid, the shoebomber who tried to blow up a flight to America, also attended mosques run by the group.
The operation to thwart Ali, Sarwar and Hussain is one of the largest ever carried out by Scotland Yard and has cost more than £20million.
The three men planned to fill 500ml Lucozade and Oasis bottles with a homemade fluid concocted from hydrogen peroxide - commonly used as hair bleach - and dyed the same colour as the drink, which would have passed undetected through security scanners.
When the plot was smashed in August 2006 it triggered chaos at airports as a ban on liquid containers bigger than 100ml was brought in overnight. The ban is still in force today.

Security services became aware of the plot in May 2006 and a massive surveillance operation began. Prosecutors alleged Ali, Sarwar and Hussain plotted to blow up seven planes bound from Heathrow to cities in the U.S. and Canada.
It was also claimed that the bombers talked of taking their wives and children on board planes.
At least 2,000 passengers and crew would have perished and thousands more could have died if the planes had been flying over land.

Both Ali and Hussain made 'martyrdom' suicide videos in which Ali ranted of his desire to 'scatter the body parts' of non-believers while Hussain wished he could 'do this again and again'.
Sarwar was not destined to die in the plot - he planned to rebuild the terror cell for a second wave of terror attacks.
His targets included Canary Wharf, the Greenwich Foot Tunnel under the Thames and nuclear power stations.
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The eight men as depicted in court: (l to r) Abdullah Ahmed Ali, Assad Sarwar, Tanvir Hussain, Mohammed Gulzur, Ibrahim Savant, Arafat Khan, Waheed Zaman and Umar Islam
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He stockpiled hydrogen peroxide in the garage of his home in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, and in a suitcase hidden in woods. Police also found a bomb factory in the first floor of a terrace house in East London.
The plot originated in and was directed from Pakistan by a senior Al Qaeda figure called Abu Abaida Al Masri who, the Daily Mail can reveal, was also the mastermind of the 7/7 London bombings which killed 52.
Another British-born Muslim called Rashid Rauf, a crucial go-between in the plot, is on the run in Pakistan.
It was his capture there in August 2006 which triggered the arrests in Britain when police realised the men were due to carry out a 'dummy run' within days.
The important roles of 27-year-old Rauf and Al Masri, combined with the fact that they are unaccounted for, raises concerns that they may be coordinating another terror attack.
There are also alarming links between the airline bombers and the 7/7 and 21/7 bombers, suggesting that all the groups knew each other and trained together in Pakistan.
Bottle bomb ringleader Ali and 21/7 leader Muktar Ibrahim were in phone contact only two months before the failed suicide attack in 2005.
And the pair were in Pakistan for training at the same time as 7/7 ringleader Mohammed Siddique Khan and fellow bomber Shezhad Tanweer.

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While Tablighi Jamaat maintains that it 'utterly refutes' any links to terrorism or terrorists, in 2003 the FBI said there was a significant Tablighi presence in the U.S. and that Al Qaeda used it for recruiting.
Ali and Sarwar were both committed members and attended religious study meetings and weekend camps run by the group in East London.
The links to terrorism are hard to ignore, especially when the group wants to build a £75million 'megamosque' for 12,000 worshippers next to the Olympic village and has hired a Westminster lobbying company to spearhead the bid.
Yesterday at Woolwich Crown Court in South-East London a jury found Ali, Sarwar and Hussain guilty of conspiracy to murder after a five-month trial but failed to reach a verdict on whether they intended to blow up transatlantic jets.

They will be sentenced at a later date.
The jusy also failed to reach a verdict on whether four other alleged bombers - Ibrahim Savant, Umar Islam, Arafat Khan and Waheed Zaman - were guilty of conspiracy to murder.
An eighth man, Mohammed Gulzar, was cleared of all charges.


THE GUILTY MEN
 
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