Defiant N Korea launches rocket

Well here's what it's about AZ.

We can very well duke it out with North Korea and win, but until we have an answer for all their artillery that's aimed at Seoul and their chemical weapons that can be delivered from them, we're screwed. The instant we cross the DMZ in force, our families are all dead. Understand? And not just nice dead, I mean they'll be they'll be throwing up their entire lungs and sh*tting out their intestines. They have enough chemical weapons to destroy South Korea's entire population several times over. Taking out those tubes will also be tough because there's a LOT of artillery up there and air strikes against them won't be fast enough because they got some very good SAM coverage. Only counter battery fire will do but considering the amount of arty the bad guys have, counter battery fire is going to be stretched well beyond its limits. Basically there just isn't a solution to this.
The only thing that could EVER justify a war under those circumstances is if North Korea attacks first.
Yeah I don't like it that Kim Jong-il will probably die of natural causes, but sh*t, he's got us pretty good.
North Korea is a headache for all the countries around it, but it serves as a barrier between the Chinese and South Korea and Japan.
No, I don't think they're our friends or brothers at all. It's just that the situation sucks even if we win the war.
Imagine Mexico and the US went to war fifty years back and Mexico currently has artillery tubes armed with chemical weapons pointed at LA. You think you could seriously touch that? I'd imagine the only thing that could ever justify something like that would be if Mexico attacked first.
23 million people in the Seoul metropolitan area are mostly within range, so is Incheon with a quarter of a million people, Bucheon has close to a million people.
These people are packed in one of the densest places on earth inside apartment buildings. You don't even have to go chemical to kill over ten thousand people overnight.
North Korea got used to the previous administration being all kind to them. Now they can't stand the fact that South Korea's current administration refuses to take orders from them so they're turning on the heat in South Korea too so that next time, voters will vote for a more North Korea friendly government. Ass h*les.

Neither of the two Koreas want to duke it out.
 
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Worrying development

North Korea has said it will boycott talks over its nuclear programme in protest at UN criticism of its recent rocket launch, says state media. Pyongyang said the talks over ending its weapons programme were "useless".
North Korea also said it would restart nuclear facilities it had begun to dismantle under an international deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7997481.stm
 
So how long does the world need to put up with North Korean bluster and blackmail, personally I think it's time to leave them to it, cut off all food, oil and financial aid and tell Kim Mentally Ill that if he so much as thinks about pushing a nuclear button someone is going to stick 20 megatons up his rectum and push a button of their own.

This is ludicrous every 5 minutes we get a "if you dont give us XXXXXX we will switch on YYYYYYY nuclear facility" it is really time to leave him to it and see how long his country is prepared to starve before they lynch him and if they arent prepared to do something about him then they deserve him.
 
My only concern though is that we're reacting all the time.
How could it be possible to make sure that they sing to our tune?
But like I said, cutting off all aid is unlikely to happen because none of the countries in their vicinity want to deal with the consequences of the country actually collapsing.
If we just deny them of publicity, that itself could solve half the problem but unfortunately that's not possible with free press.
It seems like we are our own worst enemy.
Actually, since an all out war is not what North Korea wishes, a limited precision strike on the facilities might actually work out.
 
I can see no good reason not to let the country collapse.

I am really getting tired of being held hostage by tin pot dictators like him, Mugabe and that Bananarama nutter in Fiji, it seems to me that half the world is a basket case that now continually expects that the West will prop it up "or else" I say we test out the "or else" option for a change.
 
It's hard to see the reasons when you're half a world away but when you're in the area itself, you'll know why.
For the Chinese: North Korea presents a buffer zone between itself and the United States (as well as South Korea and Japan). Any piss fights with any of these parties would be conducted at a bit of an arm's length.
For South Korea: If North Korea falls, it faces a really tough dilemma. If it loses North Korea to the Chinese, they can't even pretend to want reunification anymore whether it be losing North Korea to the Chinese as a puppet state (most likely) or as the newest territory of China (not very likely). If it decides to and is able to secure North Korea, it will destroy South Korea's economy. It's a choice the country doesn't want to make.
As for Japan: North Korea's a pain in the ass but again provides a bit of a buffer so that its problems with the Chinese need only focus in the south.
So basically all parties involved in the region would rather have North Korea around but the recent tantrums those guys have been throwing has been pissing off everyone as they are playing a very dangerous game with those missiles.

And again, there's the possibility that if North Korea feels that collapse is imminent, it may decide to go out with a serious fight. Then it's going to be really messy.
 
I agree with Monty. This latest news is a slap in the face. North Korea needs to be put down, and to hell with China - they will not risk war with us to defend that little idjit Il. Starve their people into submission or just nuke the entire country into submission. They have gotten way too big for their britches.
 
That is true they have got to big. But on the fact on starving them to death it is not going to happen. They are already starving. Any aid that has ever been sent over has been taken away from the people and given to the military. So that has stopped. For the nuking of Korea it is not going to work because what person can truly justify the nuking of a country? Once you go there is no coming back. So if any military action were to happen it would have to be with out the nukes. The best option we have right now is to let North Korea fire the first shot. Then now matter what we do it is justified. We can just say they fired first. Then when they do come in with every thing we got so the American people can’t back out. Like what happened on Vietnam and the Iraq war. Like President Roosevelt said speak softly but carry a big stick.
 
Guys, an embargo will not work becuase the parties next to North Korea will not follow it. Understand? That's why it won't work. Already the black market network between China and North Korea is pretty substantial. In a way, that's the only part of the North Korean economy that works. Pass another resolution to place an embargo on North Korea and it's largely going to be symbolic. North Korea has lived with a trade embargo for so long they know how to get around it.
In any case, the world's 13th largest economy will be destroyed in the event of war and trust me, for the Chinese, this is their back yard and North Korea does play an important role for them. It's pretty much the only reason why the Chinese have actually invested money in those guys. They don't expect them to come around, they just need them to be there. In any case, in the event that this region undergoes a big shakeup, the Chinese will probably emerge as the winner. They know the area, they're resourceful and I think they're a heck of a lot smarter than us.
And like I said, all of this crap is just to grab our attention. They've been playing this game for a long time, though this one in particular has been upped a notch.
If the missiles really give you that many sleepless nights, announce that a precision attack is imminent about twenty minutes before impact. That'll give them enough time to evacuate their people and it'll destroy the facility - mission accomplished. Also, it's a lot easier to deal with them if they had a chance to avoid casualties on their part.

So basically your problems:
- North Korea holds South Korea hostage (capability to kill more people overnight than during the whole course of the GWOT).
- The Chinese factor. In the event of chaos in this region they will probably emerge as the winners one way or another, especially if America starts the hostilities.
- If America keeps starting new wars of a large scale, opposition parties and groups in countries with US military bases will have their position strengthened and may even succeed this time.
- The embargo option has already been exhausted and it's not going to work (also, imagine asking West Germany to starve East Germany to death, no, they would not have gone for that either).
- Media blackout denying North Korea won't work because of the freedom of the press.

Possible solution:
- A limited strike on a high value target with a warning twenty minutes in advance of impact. It's not without precedence. South Korea did launch an artillery barrage against North Korea sometimes in the 70's or something and the North Koreans did not retaliate.
 
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Fine then invade conventionally, yes it will suck for Seoul but so what if you want to live within 30 miles of a whack job with guns pointed at you then perhaps you have made it too far up the food chain yourself.

Unlike Iraq, North Korea has been given chance after chance and every time they want something they just start making the same threats over again and the West gives in.

As I see it we only have 3 options:
- Suck it up and bend over for the Ompa Lumpa of North Korea
- Kick the crap out of the place and be done with it.
- Leave it to South Korea to decide, but either way they get to foot the bill for his demands.
 
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