Death Squad Democracy

Are death squads ever justifiable?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't care because it isn't happening in my country.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
bulldogg said:
It is not done openly in the sense of "Hi we're here to train your troops and by the way we are going to conduct an assessment of your fighting strength, capabilities and weaknesses in case we ever need to dismantle your butt." It is well known in the US but they dont announce it to the host countries receiving the training.

See 03's last post (read the "friggin'" post, eh?). The leadership of these countries are not necessarily stupid, and should in fact be quite capable of realizing this on their own.


Noticeably absent from this conversation has been the protagonist of this thread. I really did want GtoACommo to elucidate his views especially since he said it was one shared by his friends, the Iraqis.

:?:

Unfortunately it is impossible to make another member post in a certain thread or to even notice that thread. In the future you will PM those members you would like to post in your threads before you place their name in that thread (I will not address the way it was mentioned in an effort to avoid being thought "oversensitive").
 
bulldogg said:
It is not done openly in the sense of "Hi we're here to train your troops and by the way we are going to conduct an assessment of your fighting strength, capabilities and weaknesses in case we ever need to dismantle your butt." It is well known in the US but they dont announce it to the host countries receiving the training.

The connections with the officers would be just human nature but they are assessed in a way that shows whether or not they could be turned. Who is a rising star and who is corrupt etc. Normal stuff that is done but you don't do it in a Dudley Do Right kinda way.

Do you really believe that? If you do then pray tell enlighten me on how you train/advise any Military Force if you don't know the following capabilties .

1. Fighting Strength.
2.Capabilties
3.Weakness'.
4. Level of training.

NCO's ,SNCO's and Officers in the US Military gauge the same thing in their units from fire team level up to Divisional level. You can't put together a training cycle if you don't have an idea of the training that is lacking.

Do you really believe that the US needs to send Advisors to "spy" on other Countries, (friendly) countries to gain knowledge of their Military and their Capabilties? Pick up a Janes book. Ask a Military or Naval Attache at an Embassy. Advisor's missions in this regard are limited.

IMO for this type of theory to have merit. It would mean that US Advisors just show up one day unannounced. It doesn't work like that.
 
You're right. I am wrong. It is all a bunch of horse dung I pulled in from the north quarter. Gee, how did I ever think I could know something that everyone else doesnt know. Its a shame that the best sources for this actual information are not authors but are mates of mine still in the service doing bloody IMET missions in Africa and the Middle East. Its a bloody shame others I know who told me the stories have died without committing it to print out of fear of reprisal. Not all truths in the world are contained in sources you can verify on the bloody internet or the ever-lovin library mates. We can't mention people's names except are own on here so... at this point, as I cannot provide you with verifiable evidence that you can peruse at your leisure, I will cease to discuss the matter further.

If you two want to continue to harrass me and hound my every post and ignore the common ground we do share in an effort to maintain your utter disdain for me so be it.

If you would like me to piss off then say just the damn word mates.
 
According to press accounts, the Pentagon is considering the organisation, training and equipping of so-called death squads, teams of Iraqi assassins who would be used to infiltrate and eliminate the leadership of the Iraqi resistance.

By using that definition I say yes. Would anyone complain if we had been successful in killing Saddam in the early hours of the war or if we had killed Osama 2002? No, is this really any different? Not to me. I classify the resistance as those who are using "terror tactics" to try and undermine the current government in Iraq (ie the bombing checkpoints not to kill soldiers but to kill the civilians waiting to pass through the check points and "aid the zionist". I also support the use of these "death squads" against those who would use mines to kill US soldiers. I intend to re-enlist after my knee surgery tomorrow and I do not kid myself, I will be going to Iraq so anything we can do now that will help make Iraq a safer and more stable place when I get there is fine by me. Even if it means killing the leaders of a resistance bent on using violence instead of voicing their opinions in government as they were given the opportunity to do so.
 
bulldogg said:
If you two want to continue to harrass me and hound my every post and ignore the common ground we do share in an effort to maintain your utter disdain for me so be it.

If you post on highly controversial subjests (which obviously myself and others often strongly disagree with your positions on), you should be expecting a heated debate to develop, I do not see how this is "harassment." If you feel that something is being done that is not kosher, please PM myself and/or Redleg and the issue will be addressed.



:eek:fftopic: Good luck with that knee surgery Damien, hope it all turns out well.
:eek:fftopic:
 
Sorry if you feel I'm harassing you. Not my intent. That being said I do not and will not believe the spin you are trying place on advisory missions.

1.Seems to me that you fail to acknowledge the fact that countries receiving Advisory aid enter into the relationship with an understanding of the training that will be provided to their Armed Forces.

2. The US forces Advisors and Military Aid on Friendly Nations.

3. That the US should assume all responsibility for the misuse of training by Goverments (other than our own) Simply because the US at some point in time provided the training.

4.That some how by providing aid to our Allies the US is perpetrating a Vast Conspiracy of Global Domination.


Sorry I don't buy it. And I won't give it lip service approval just because.

BTW not all of my information comes from the "internet or library"........Just ta let know. ;)
 
I just know I'll be stoned into submission for this but....! If I was a small time dictator who wanted to form a crack killer unit, I wouldn't contact a US Special Ops force, I would hire the dirtiest, hardest, meanest, battle hardened mercenaries I could muster from a variety of Countries. Secrecy would be assured as these guys usually garrotte all wittenesses.
 
Ok, stressful week is now behind me...

Redneck you remind me exactly of my little brother. That said you have to understand that to this day we ain't happy if we ain't fightin'. ;)

03. I never said that the US assumes all responsibility. But I do believe they share in it when the training provided is "misused". I also do not think these countries enter into the agreement with their head completely submerged in their buttocks. Don't think I said that, if it seemed implied, it wasn't. On the fourth point, yes, I absolutely believe that the US is imposing an economic-military hegemonic system upon the rest of the world, the third world especially. The evidence in favor of this position is, in my opinion, stronger than any argument I have heard yet in opposition.

Missileer, I would be in a bidding war with you for those mercs. ;)
 
USMC03 I would argue that there is an element of responsibility when you train someone how to do something and then they go out and do it. Whether or not they complied with YOUR intent of how that training is to be used.

By that "rule" then the Marine Corps is responsible for the death of President Kennedy because they trained Lee Harvey Oswald and the US Army is responsible for the deaths in Oklahoma City because they trained Timothy McVie. I have a short reply to that - in a pig's eye!
 
And is it still in the pig's eye C7 when the military continues to train Lee Harvey Oswald and Timothy McVie?
 
I assume you're trying to draw me into a debate about whether or not we know about "misused" training and if we know how culpable we are.

However, since my point was that we are not responsible in the first place, we can hardly be held accountable in a later case.

That being said, if as you suggest, we know of training being "misused" and continue to provide training knowing that that then there would have to be some consideration of the event correct?

In otherwords, Abu Musab al Zarqawi is no John F. Kennedy.
 
C7 I recognise you are a smart man and I have respect for your views as well as your obvious intellect, I would never try to bait you or draw you into an argument. That comment was as simple as it seems on the face of it- wanting a further clarification of your belief on this matter of training and culpability. I further agree that Zarqwari et al are not Kennedy. As I stated earlier with 03, I am referring specifically to the training of Kopassus troops in Indonesia, prior to and after their documented abuses on the island of Timor and their training prior to and after their documented involvement in the May 98 Anti-Chinese riots they engineered to oust Suharto.

My argument is simple. If you train a man to kill and he kills an innocent, he is guilty. If after the man kills an innocent you continue to train the man how to kill you share guilt with him.

Further, if you sell a country weapons and they kill their own unarmed civilians they are guilty. If after they kill their own unarmed civilians you continue to sell them weapons you share their guilt.

There is legal precedent for both of these counts on a personal level in US law, Indonesian law and the laws of many other countries. As well as the verdicts and the doctrine drawn thereof from the post WWII Nazi war criminal trials.
 
bulldogg said:
Further, if you sell a country weapons and they kill their own unarmed civilians they are guilty. If after they kill their own unarmed civilians you continue to sell them weapons you share their guilt.

Free Trade.
 
Damien435 said:
bulldogg said:
Further, if you sell a country weapons and they kill their own unarmed civilians they are guilty. If after they kill their own unarmed civilians you continue to sell them weapons you share their guilt.

Free Trade.

So with that logic there is nothing wrong with Iran selling nuclear weapons to Syria. No problem with Russia selling chemical or biological agents to North Korea. And while we're at it lets not infringe on the rights of the Palestinian Authority to purchase anything it wants. Am I tracking with your line of thought? Or is this a hypocritical statement rooted in the specious logic that its only ok for the US to engage in "Free Trade"?
 
Damien435 said:
bulldogg said:
Further, if you sell a country weapons and they kill their own unarmed civilians they are guilty. If after they kill their own unarmed civilians you continue to sell them weapons you share their guilt.

Free Trade.
:roll:
 
This all sounds fine but just who chose who is to live and who is die, a lot this could come down to whether you had upset some one or written a comment about them in a chat room, or if you had cut them up while driving. With out the full check balances your life would not be worth very much. I worked for a while with a British born Pakistan lad who had more degrees than a thermometer. His parents being very traditional wanted him to have an arranged marriage, so he made a deal with them, he chose his bride and they can arrange it. The wedding was held in Pakistan and the wedding feast went on for 5 days, and being such a large function people attended from all over the place and from all levels of the Government. About half through the feast some of the local villains came in to wish the couple well and in doing so they upset a member of the Government, the next morning when the couple got all villains and people that came with them were hanging from the trees in the road and he found out that for about 75 cents you can have any one killed that you did not like. It works like this just how much do you value your life.
 
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