"Death of a german Soldier is the first step into the right direction..."

ObjSRgtLw

ObjSRgtLw

Active member
German Peace Community published a Poster on www.bamm.de which shows the coffin of the recently fallen german soldier with the words
"German Forces on the right way- First move towards demobilisation- one less- We support this measure to reduce the german forces"
Minister of Defense and army commissary have now issued a formal protest.


source: http://news.de.msn.com/politik/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=9458384 (german- didn't find any english news on this- if you find it please post the link... thanks)


My personal Opinion about this:
It just affirms my view on german society- instead of punishing these guys there won't be any measures taken to sanction this...
Whereever you are from- thank god if the people stand behind you as soldier... in germany only people who are against the military are being heard- that's why many think it is the belief of the majority- i don't know that for certain- i just hope they are wrong.
 
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People here don't give a crap either.
Though not hostile like that.
If we keep having things like these we really ought to have a "free month" where all enemies of the state will be allowed to enter and no action will be taken against them. Show the cocksuckers what life without the military can be like.
Of course if they're serious about anarchy, you can cut off their water, sewage, gas and electricity as well.
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
German Peace Community published a Poster on www.bamm.de which shows the coffin of the recently fallen german soldier with the words
"German Forces on the right way- First move towards demobilisation- one less- We support this measure to reduce the german forces"
Minister of Defense and army commissary have now issued a formal protest.


source: http://news.de.msn.com/politik/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=9458384 (german- didn't find any english news on this- if you find it please post the link... thanks)


My personal Opinion about this:
It just affirms my view on german society- instead of punishing these guys there won't be any measures taken to sanction this...
Whereever you are from- thank god if the people stand behind you as soldier... in germany only people who are against the military are being heard- that's why many think it is the belief of the majority- i don't know that for certain- i just hope they are wrong.
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Here is your problem though, if you want free speech then you have to be prepared to put up with hearing things you may not like as well.

Is this form of protest distasteful and and unwarranted yes it is but for good or bad it is not illegal.


Here is a report on the incident in English...


Germany's defense minister has condemned as an insult to the country's troops an anti-war poster that calls the death of a soldier in Afghanistan a "step to disarmament."
Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung was quoted by the Bild newspaper Thursday as saying that the poster on the Web site of Germany's "Bureau for Antimilitary Measures" group was "tasteless" and "irresponsible."
"It is a slap in the face to our soldiers who risk their lives for Germany's freedom," he told the top-selling newspaper, a week after a German soldier was killed in a roadside bombing in northern Afghanistan.
The downloadable poster — which has been available for five years — shows three soldiers standing next to the flag-draped coffin of a comrade killed in a 2002 helicopter crash in Afghanistan. "We greet this concrete measure to reduce the size of the military one-by-one," reads the caption under the poster's headline.
The poster was produced in conjunction with the Berlin-area branch of the larger peace organization DFG-VK, whose parent organization on Thursday said it had not been sanctioned. The group called the poster an "inappropriate form of addressing the issue of Germany's involvement in war."
"The cynicism of the poster is for us hard to bear," the group said in a statement. "Our humanistic world view forbids us from gratification at the death of any human being — even in the form of satire."
At the same time the group insisted "The poster, however, is not a crime — unlike the war that deliberately claims the lives of soldiers and innocent civilians."
It was not clear why the controversy has surfaced now, though Bild's interview with Jung came Wednesday during the defense minister's surprise visit to Afghanistan in the wake of the recent attack on German forces.
In the United States, the Bush administration has blocked media coverage of the coffins of slain service members arriving home but there has been no such ban in Germany.
Twenty-six German soldiers have died in Afghanistan since the country's mission there began in 2002. About 3,300 German soldiers are serving in Afghanistan as part of its international force, most of them in the country's relatively calm north.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_re_eu/germany_anti_war_poster
 
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I agree, but if you keep hearing that kind of **** from people you've sworn to give your life for it just makes you crazy.

But what they did with this Poster was s.th. you just don't do because making fun of someones death, who gave it for those who designed this Poster is the bottom line you just do not cross- thats how i think about it.
The freedom of speech you are referring to would also allow to be NAZI in public with flags and stuff which is also forbidden in germany- the question is where you draw the line. You'll find censorship in EVERY country- hostage situations, intelligence info etc. THIS also interferes with the freedom of speech- somewhere you have to draw the line and posters like that should be sanctioned- but well we also allow people who immigrate to tell us how our country sucks instead of sending them back- which would be a far more logical solution, but hey as you said- freedom of speech - (at any cost?)

The subject is difficult to discuss, it's the same with democracy- i swore to serve and protect the FDGO (free democratic basic order) but i am happy with politicians making decisions not the people themselves with popular votes because sometimes that just wouldn't be the best...
well yould take some hours to discuss those kind of things.

Back to Topic- freedom of speech or not i think they crossed a sensitive line there and to simply honor the death of a human being (human rights...? dignity of dead people...) they should shut the **** up....
"Our humanistic world view forbids us from gratification at the death of any human being — even in the form of satire."
 
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ObjSRgtLw said:
I agree, but if you keep hearing that kind of **** from people you've sworn to give your life for it just makes you crazy.

But what they did with this Poster was s.th. you just don't do because making fun of someones death, who gave it for those who designed this Poster is the bottom line you just do not cross- thats how i think about it.
The freedom of speech you are referring to would also allow to be NAZI in public with flags and stuff which is also forbidden in germany- the question is where you draw the line. You'll find censorship in EVERY country- hostage situations, intelligence info etc. THIS also interferes with the freedom of speech- somewhere you have to draw the line and posters like that should be sanctioned- but well we also allow people who immigrate to tell us how our country sucks instead of sending them back- which would be a far more logical solution, but hey as you said- freedom of speech - (at any cost?)
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Like I said I agree that it is distasteful, disgusting and wrong but it is not illegal, it is not a failing of "freedom" but a failing of morals.

Where do you draw the line, well it is drawn where it becomes slander and it is perhaps mostly drawn where it becomes action, you are free to say what you like but you are not act on it and you have have to accept the consequences from what you say.

The subject is difficult to discuss, it's the same with democracy- i swore to serve and protect the FDGO (free democratic basic order) but i am happy with politicians making decisions not the people themselves with popular votes because sometimes that just wouldn't be the best...
well yould take some hours to discuss those kind of things.
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Well as they say Democracy is nothing more than tyranny by the majority, you cannot separate politicians from the electorate whether we like it or not they are elected to represent the people and as such they will make decisions based on popularity.


Back to Topic- freedom of speech or not i think they crossed a sensitive line there and to simply honor the death of a human being (human rights...? dignity of dead people...) they should shut the **** up....
"Our humanistic world view forbids us from gratification at the death of any human being — even in the form of satire."
Click to expand...
I agree, but clearly they do not. Personally if I was the authorities I would support their right to protest and then shut them down using whatever "publishing offensive material" laws you have.
 
Personally never understood why if extreme right wing activities are banned, why extreme left wing activities aren't.
They actually have a lot in common.
 
Welcome to being a fighter for freedom and justice. As a soldier I have been spat upon and as a Police Officer I have been spat upon. I've risked my neck for other people and all that I get is a slap in the face in a kick in the ass. I raise my voice and people call me baby killer, gun nut, or right winger. I've lost friends and people tell me that they're happy that they're dead.

These damn hippie anti-military, anti-freedom protesters get a free pass at society and life while I don't.

But in the end.... I know that I'll have a better life and a better afterlife because I am a good man. As a soldier I am 100% against war. I'd rather be home then fight but hey... I also know that I cannot sit on the side lines and allow my enemies a free pass.
 
well said, though i'm shocked that you say that as american- thought there it is only a vast minority...
 
MontyB said:
"The cynicism of the poster is for us hard to bear," the group said in a statement. "Our humanistic world view forbids us from gratification at the death of any human being — even in the form of satire."
Click to expand...



Unfortunately this was not satire.
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
well said, though i'm shocked that you say that as american- thought there it is only a vast minority...
Click to expand...


All true warriors fight for peace.... We would all rather live in peaceful times and not be needed. When I was in the service, I wanted to be back home. But I knew that I had a job to do and the risks that are part of the job. I also knew that if I didn't do my job many innocent people back home could be harmed or killed because of my inactions. I cannot lay down my rifle and be a champion for peace because my enemies will not do the same.

Until there aren't people trying to kill me and destroy my way of life and my nation. I will be a warrior and I will fight the fight.
 
You know how Muslims have the Ramadan to remind everyone about what hunger feels like so that they would treat the poor nicely and with some respect and understanding? We need a version of that, except maybe two months out of the year the police and military will go on vacation and won't take any calls whatsoever.
That'll remind people.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
You know how Muslims have the Ramadan to remind everyone about what hunger feels like so that they would treat the poor nicely and with some respect and understanding? We need a version of that, except maybe two months out of the year the police and military will go on vacation and won't take any calls whatsoever.
That'll remind people.
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I can go for a two month vacation except I've been out of work as a LEO for four months.... damn budget cuts.
 
Not a bad idea- 1 month police vacation and after it you'll need the military to get things back into order because human beings are animals- even those "peace keepers", I guess they are so angry about soldiers because they can't even manage to raise their own children without mental disorders- only the military could be the last chance for them :m1:
 
MontyB said:
Here is your problem though, if you want free speech then you have to be prepared to put up with hearing things you may not like as well.

Is this form of protest distasteful and and unwarranted yes it is but for good or bad it is not illegal.


Here is a report on the incident in English...


Germany's defense minister has condemned as an insult to the country's troops an anti-war poster that calls the death of a soldier in Afghanistan a "step to disarmament."
Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung was quoted by the Bild newspaper Thursday as saying that the poster on the Web site of Germany's "Bureau for Antimilitary Measures" group was "tasteless" and "irresponsible."
"It is a slap in the face to our soldiers who risk their lives for Germany's freedom," he told the top-selling newspaper, a week after a German soldier was killed in a roadside bombing in northern Afghanistan.
The downloadable poster — which has been available for five years — shows three soldiers standing next to the flag-draped coffin of a comrade killed in a 2002 helicopter crash in Afghanistan. "We greet this concrete measure to reduce the size of the military one-by-one," reads the caption under the poster's headline.
The poster was produced in conjunction with the Berlin-area branch of the larger peace organization DFG-VK, whose parent organization on Thursday said it had not been sanctioned. The group called the poster an "inappropriate form of addressing the issue of Germany's involvement in war."
"The cynicism of the poster is for us hard to bear," the group said in a statement. "Our humanistic world view forbids us from gratification at the death of any human being — even in the form of satire."
At the same time the group insisted "The poster, however, is not a crime — unlike the war that deliberately claims the lives of soldiers and innocent civilians."
It was not clear why the controversy has surfaced now, though Bild's interview with Jung came Wednesday during the defense minister's surprise visit to Afghanistan in the wake of the recent attack on German forces.
In the United States, the Bush administration has blocked media coverage of the coffins of slain service members arriving home but there has been no such ban in Germany.
Twenty-six German soldiers have died in Afghanistan since the country's mission there began in 2002. About 3,300 German soldiers are serving in Afghanistan as part of its international force, most of them in the country's relatively calm north.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_re_eu/germany_anti_war_poster
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly we have the same problem in Canada. So many of these protests is the work of the un-educated, university students included. I have no idea what the German history of left wing protest entails. But I do know that successive Liberal governments in Canada have used an odious propoganda technic to lie to the Canadian public about our so called tradition. One of our prime ministers, Lester Pearson worked towards using soldiers in a peacekeeping role instead of the role they are trained for. Since the late sixties onward all you could hear when asking a question about our forces was how proud we should be to use our troops as peace-keepers. Of course this gobbledegook is pure B.S. Canada's military tradition is old, honorable, and steeped in blood. When I hear some 20 year old rattle on about peacekeeping I want to shake him very warmly by the throat.
 
Its sick, those types of people make me so mad and disgusted- we have them too Code Pink even goes as far as sending aid pakages..not to our boys but to the ENEMY-witch is treason! and they aren't arrested for it! and they protest at solders funerals putting up signs like "Thank God for dead solders" its appalling! these people are twisted and have no heart.
 
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