DC has lost their friggin minds

5.56X45mm

Milforum Mac Daddy
WASHINGTON -

D.C. police will seal off entire neighborhoods, set up checkpoints and kick out strangers under a new program that D.C. officials hope will help them rescue the city from its out-of-control violence.

Under an executive order expected to be announced today, police Chief Cathy L. Lanier will have the authority to designate “Neighborhood Safety Zones.” At least six officers will man cordons around those zones and demand identification from people coming in and out of them. Anyone who doesn’t live there, work there or have “legitimate reason” to be there will be sent away or face arrest, documents obtained by The Examiner show.

Lanier has been struggling to reverse D.C.’s spiraling crime rate but has been forced by public outcry to scale back several initiatives including her “All Hands on Deck” weekends and plans for warrantless, door-to-door searches for drugs and guns.

Under today’s proposal, the no-go zones will last up to 10 days, according to internal police documents. Front-line officers are already being signed up for training on running the blue curtains.

Peter Nickles, the city’s interim attorney general, said the quarantine would have “a narrow focus.”

“This is a very targeted program that has been used in other cities,” Nickles told The Examiner. “I’m not worried about the constitutionality of it.”

Others are. Kristopher Baumann, chairman of the D.C. police union and a former lawyer, called the checkpoint proposal “breathtaking.”

Shelley Broderick, president of the D.C.-area American Civil Liberties Union and the dean of the University of the District of Columbia’s law school, said the plan was “cockamamie.”

“I think they tried this in Russia and it failed,” she said. “It’s just our experience in this city that we always end up targeting poor people and people of color, and we treat the kids coming home from choir practice the same as we treat those kids who are selling drugs.”

The proposal has the provisional support of D.C. Councilman Harry “Tommy” Thomas, D-Ward 5, whose ward has become a war zone.

“They’re really going to crack down on what we believe to be a systemic problem with open-air drug markets,” Thomas told The Examiner.

Thomas said, though, that he worried about D.C. “moving towards a police state.” http://www.theagitator.com/2008/06/04/police-state-dc/
For another news story about this. go here

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/DC_checkpoint_plan_latest_police_state_0604.html


This is totall BS, WTF is going on??? How can they leaglly do this, so now apprently your not allowed rights ounce they put this lock down around your neighborhood??

Cop:Who are you?
Uhhm John

Cop:What are you doing here?
Uhhm walking my dog...

Cop: I demand to see your ID right now.
Okay... let me reach for my wallet
Cop: Hand goes to gun, pull it out slowly

Cop:You dont live or work in this neighborhood?
Uhhm no, just walking the dog, I live a couple blocks over...

Cop:Your not allowed here then, please leave immediately!!
What are you talking about, isn't this "Free America"? and isn't this a public road? Don't I have a legal right to freedom of movement?

Cop:Need back up for another crazy ass who thinks they have rights!!




Man, as a LEO I cannot stand crap like this.

Do I know who is a regular and who is not. You beat your ass I do. It's called Community Policing. I talk to folks about everything, what they drive, where they work, their hobbies, etc... it's called being friendly and getting to know folks. When someone comes into a neighborhood that does not belong there I will tail them and see what they're up to. If they're just stalking a area I take down their tag or description. Basically I get on their asses until they understand that I will not approve of what they're doing.

Criminals hunting for prey is obvious. But it's hard to make L&P. So in the end ride them long enough to make them stick out and they haul ass away.

What DC is doing is straight out of Cuba, Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union.

How do they get away with this crap?

This is how they do it... Nickles told The Examiner. “I’m not worried about the constitutionality of it.”

I can't believe that the Citizens of DC aren't protesting this.

Myself as a LEO took an oath to uphold and protect the rights of the citizenry that I serve. By doing so that also means that I cannot violate their rights. DC is doing just that.

First it's a couple of check points with thyem asking for papers, next it's secret police and a gulag.

Sorry but in the United States of America, you have to right to freedom of movement on public roadways and land, you have a right to be secure on your person, and you have a right not to be asked for ID if a LEO just asks. (Supreme Court Ruling somewhat changed it. A LEO can ask for ID if the officer believes that the person is a suspect of a crime. But not just a everyday citizen walking down the street.)

Once again, Peter Nickles (Washington DC Attorney General) said and I quote "I’m not worried about the constitutionality of it."

The Attorney General is the High Law Enfocrment Offical of the Washington DC City Government.
 
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Aahhh,... go on Luis, get with the program. Go on a mind bending power trip and tazer a few local kids just for laughs:jump:.
 
What is going on? They're trying to make America safe. You have no problem with checkpoints all over Iraq to make them safe, why not implement some here?
 
No doubt about it the gun ban in DC was wrong. No where in the USA should a gun ban ever be authorized. To impose a gun ban favors the criminals who do not obey the laws.
I for one think the police have their hands tied, the system definitely favors the criminals. I am not opposed to more aggressive police work. I figure if your not breaking the law this should not be a concern.

5.56, your arguments are strong and intelligent. However, with this new threat of terrorism that this country has never had prior to 11 Sept 2001, this type of stuff has to be authorized to our law enforcement personnel in order for them to thwart an attack before it happens. These types of checkpoints are a good example of being pro-active instead of waiting for another 3,000 Americans to get killed in less than an hour because we chose the route of only being re-active in our law enforcement approach.
 
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5.56, your arguments are strong and intelligent. However, with this new threat of terrorism that this country has never had prior to 11 Sept 2001, this type of stuff has to be authorized to our law enforcement personnel in order for them to thwart an attack before it happens. These types of checkpoints are a good example of being pro-active instead of waiting for another 3,000 Americans to get killed in less than an hour because we chose the route of only being re-active in our law enforcement approach.

I can agree with that if the cordon was being placed around a site that has some value as a terrorist target. I've got no problem with ID on demand at airports, train stations, goverment buildings no problem with a large LE presence there eithier.

What we are talking about here is a nieghborhood(s) and controlling movement in and and out for x amount of time. All in an attempt to stop illegal activity in a short amount of time. We both know that as soon as they move the focus of the enforcement that the rock slingers and bangers will move back in.

I'm going to have to go with 5.56 on this. From a local LEO standpoint this has far reaching ramifications on how your going conduct business after this brain-storm blows over.

When the solid citizen starts getting jacked up by uniforms every time they run to the corner market for a dozen eggs it's gonna sour them. The locals are gonna loose support. Especially if the officers used in the cordon are flown in on details from other precients or are a special unit with no stake in that nieghborhood after the op is done.

IMHO the chief is new and under the gun and this is a knee jerk watch this reaction that's gonna hurt in the long run. Not the suits but the street grunts.
 
True enough 03, makes sense to me too but the reality of the situation is that DC is the Capital of the country, so the whole city is or should be considered a terrorist target. Just because our Intel has not identified a specific threat doesn't mean it does not exist. After all, the red tape our Intel has to go through to the the authorization to get the proper surveillance they need makes the Intel's personnel job so hard that by the time they were authorized to listen in for example, the Intel they could get is a week to six months old perhaps? I understand we don't want to give an inch and then have them take a mile but at the same time, I don't really like the idea of being out and about and then have a plane plop down on top of me, or I hear a boom and little Timmy is in 3,ooo different pieces and starting to stink.
 
Then it needs a city wide permenant op. A roving op isn't gonna cut it and since it doesn't appear to aimmed at terrorists but a dealers and bangers I don't see how it's comparable to AT operations that are already being conducted in DC by FLEA's and Metro DC.

If Chief Lanier really wanted this to work instead of becoming the media nightmare it might become she'd study up on Community Policing. Better idea would be to train these officers in CP and flood the problem areas with units.
 
You realize this is standard policy in many parts of North Korea.

Truth is, I think the United States is losing its mind.
What the heck is going on over there?
 
Socialism is taking a huge hold in the USA. The fall of the Soviet Union was not the end of the threat of Socialism at all... in fact it just spread the virus since there isn't a head to control it anymore.
 
Actually, where she came from, U.S. Park, that agency is pretty well known as the CP Department from hell. Yes, some of it is indeed aimed at gangs and drug personnel. The truth of the matter though, granted not a lot but enough, is that some gangs and some drug personnel have been linked to terrorists and terrorism. As I am sure you heard in the fairly recent past, let's use Heroine for example, the purchase and sales of that narcotic on the street has been linked/identified as one of the drugs sold in this country that was going directly to the Taliban folks in Afghanistan. So, a factual argument can successfully be made that would say that some, if not many of the crimes are interconnected.

What the heck's going on over here? Nothing negative in my opinion as far as this scenario is concerned. The reason why I believe this is being leaked as a roving type of Op is because if it was SOP then you would have whining about Martial Law and that type of nonsense.

Another thing to keep in mind, back in 1988, when I was a marine stationed in DC at the Marine Barracks, their were approximately 250 known terrorists in the area then. At least, that was one of the items passed along in meetings. Being that this was 20 years ago, I assume this is safe to share here but if not, then please moderator's. feel free to adjust accordingly.
 
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Big difference between the type of policing done by USPP and a major urban dept. USPP has some dealings in and around DC in an urban setting but a different enforcement focus and different agency view point on "customer service" for lack of a better word. Then you throw in jurisdictional differences and you can see how she might consider this a good idea.

"Well it worked well at the Washington Monument."

As far as it being linked to terrorism. Just me but it's stretching it. Heroin and the taliban link. Okay I can make the same case with cocaine. Cocaine money goes to FARC and AUC in Columbia eithier directly or indirectly and since their both listed on Terrorist Organization lists then that makes every dealer and user a supporter of a known terrorist group and thus subject to prosecution under those laws. You can make the case for just about anything if your willing to deal in various shades of gray.

I might even buy the argument were it not that thats not even the intended focus of the enforcement. The focus is street crime. Good. Great. Focus on street crime but focus on the doers and focus on getting the solid citizens on your side. Get something like the old TNT units of the 80's and Gang units get your guys out in the community and be visable.

In the long run it matters not what I think. They'll do it. It may work. I'm betting it becomes a media circus. But hey very few Chiefs and Commisioners are appointed because of a stellar record of street work. They get appointed because they are administrators and know what political buttons to push. So if it doesn't work out hopefully Lanier will take the heat for it (doubtful) and not lay it on a bunch of street grunts and 1st line supervisors.
 
Next thing will be the infamous Russian style "Internal passport" to travel from one administrative zone to the next.
 
If America slides much further down this slope of trading freedom for theoretical safety, I'm moving to Canada. Seriously, I love this place but I refuse to live in a surveillance society.
 
With the age of terrorism we live, this is what a smart society does. Have to find the guilt before they strike if possible, otherwiuse, 3,000 folks can die in less than an hour.
 
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