Team Infidel
Forum Spin Doctor
San Diego Union-Tribune
September 5, 2008 Q&A
Rear Adm. David M. Thomas Jr. is commander of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He recently met with the editorial board of the Union-Tribune. Below is an edited transcript of that interview.
Let's start with the general situation at Guantánamo. How can you maintain this kind of detention center indefinitely? Doesn't there have to be some plan eventually for getting rid of these people?
The operation in Guantánamo is at the direction of the Department of Defense and the president. I can keep executing my mission indefinitely. We have three missions at JTF Guantánamo. The first is the safe, humane and legal care and custody of detained enemy combatants. And all those words are very specifically chosen. The care we provide is safe and humane. It's legal. And it's transparent. I host and take around congressmen and members of the press. The International Committee for the Red Cross has access to all of our detainees, so the transparency piece is very important to me and our government. The second mission is an intelligence collection, assessment and dissemination mission – to ensure the safety of the detainee guard force and the other caregivers as well as the safety of the detainees themselves. And when we come across something that's significant to the greater global war on terrorism, we forward that to the appropriate intelligence or law enforcement agencies. And the third mission is the support to Office of Military Commissions. I don't run the commissions process. I support it logistically. I transport and provide security for the detainees who go to those proceedings, and also provide some IT and other infrastructures.
Will your successor in 20 years have the same mission you do today? You think so?
Yes, sir, I do. It would depend, of course, on whatever policy decisions are made by this administration and subsequent administrations and the outcome of the Office and Military Commissions process. As you know, detainees' status is reviewed annually. Some of them are approved for transfer.
What's the largest number you've ever had there and how many have been transferred, deported to other countries, etc?
About 500 have been transferred.
So how many do you have today?
Right now I've got about 260.
When you say transferred, do you mean they have been let go or they have been assigned to other facilities?
They've been transferred to other governments who had procedures or programs to rehabilitate them.
Where have they gone?
I can only speak to what's occurred in the three months I've been in command, but they've gone back to Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. Those are the two I can think of off the top of my head.
These were decisions made by Defense Department officials?
Defense Department officials in coordination with the State Department in coordination with other governments.
Tell us about the guards under your command.
I've got an incredibly motivated, talented and highly trained guard force. I've got about 1,100. More than half of them are Navy, and the remainder are a military police battalion from the Army.
So why is the story out there so bad?
Great question. This is is just my opinion. If you Google GITMO, the first image you'll see is the iconic photo of Camp X-Ray and some detainees in orange jumpsuits with black hoods over their heads with guards over them. They're actually Department of Defense photos. They were taken during the very brief period of time when Camp X-Ray was the only facility on Guantánamo that we could put our detainees in.
If you could, explain what Camp X-Ray is.
X-Ray was built in the '90s, housed some unruly migrants that were in Guantánamo. If you'll recall, in 1991 and then again in the mid-90s we had a Caribbean mass migration operation. We took them all, or most of them, to Guantánamo, built some facilities that are still in existence and were the only facilities available in January of 2002 when we brought the first detainees off the battlefields of Afghanistan. If you'll put it in context, this was when the Twin Towers were still two smoking piles of rubble in downtown New York City, so our message was that we were finding and capturing these detainees. That's sort of the iconic image associated with this mission. That's the image that's still out there. In fact, those facilities aren't used anymore. They were only used very briefly until more appropriate permanent structures were built.
Describe the physical facility. How are the prisoners kept?
Detainees.
Detainees, forgive me.
To start with the high end, my Camp Five is a maximum security facility built in the United States, modularly constructed and floated over to Guantánamo and assembled. It is a maximum security U.S. Federal Bureau of Corrections-style detention facility. Camp Six was designed as a medium security facility. In 2006, there was a riot in one of our camps, so we took Camp Six and it is a maximum security as well. Camp Four is for my highly compliant detainees. They have group recreation for upward of 12 hours a day, and it's a communal style living facility for the highly compliant detainees. In all my detention facilities, all the detainees, even the ones who are the least compliant and have the most discipline problems, get at least two hours of communal recreation a day.
What kind of discipline problems do the least compliant detainees create?
Attempting to strike a guard, or actually succeeding in striking a guard. There's this concoction – euphemistically titled a body fluid cocktail – that they will occasionally toss on a guard or attempt to, things of that nature. So, again, back to the facilities themselves. They all get recreation, group recreation, and in some of the camps they get newspapers, USA Today, a redacted copy.
Isn't the problem for your image that you're so often conflated, inaccurately, with everything that went on at Abu Ghraib?
Sure, that's probably a good assessment.
There are arguments that the Pentagon hasn't pushed back as much as it should against the notion that Abu Ghraib is the norm rather than something that was a horrible but brief period.
I can't tell you what I don't know, and I don't know. I can tell you there's nothing that goes on at Guantánamo that I would be embarrassed or ashamed to show my mom or my kids.
What about the interrogation techniques and that sort of thing?
I'm not a professional interrogator, nor am I an intelligence officer. I can tell you that you could probably characterize the interrogation as an interview. It's completely voluntary. The detainee can decide not to go. He can decide to terminate the interview or the interrogation at any point. And, in fact, about a third of the interviews or interrogations are at the request of the detainee.
So there's none of the coercive measures that we saw at Abu Ghraib and that the Congress has debated? None of that goes on? There's nothing at Guantánamo that is coercive?
Absolutely not. I'm personally accountable for the safety and health of the detainees, personally accountable. My detainee guard force, that's their role in all this, to ensure the safety and well-being of the detainees. So when they have these interviews or interrogations, they're monitored by video. They're in a closed room, with a big fluffy blue sofa for the detainee. The interviewer sits in a chair and they have a discussion. They just sit there and talk. But it's monitored by video, not recorded, no sound. But my guard can ensure that both the detainee and the interviewer are safe.
There are high-value detainees there?
Yes there are. They're in a separate camp called Camp Seven, whose existence was acknowledged last December, whose location is undisclosed for reasons of national security, but it is in Guantánamo. I'm accountable for them just like the other 240-some detainees, so their medical treatment, their food, their guard force, everything else is exactly the same as the other detainees get.
What about some of the cultural issues that have come up?
We have about six different menus, and there are over 60 special meals, depending on the dietary need or health concern. All the food is prepared strictly in accordance with the Halal process, the Islamic requirements. We strictly observe the five prayer times. Silence is maintained during the prayer call. Each detainee block has got a self-appointed or elected imam.
We issue them prayer kits, prayer rugs, prayer beads.
September 5, 2008 Q&A
Rear Adm. David M. Thomas Jr. is commander of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He recently met with the editorial board of the Union-Tribune. Below is an edited transcript of that interview.
Let's start with the general situation at Guantánamo. How can you maintain this kind of detention center indefinitely? Doesn't there have to be some plan eventually for getting rid of these people?
The operation in Guantánamo is at the direction of the Department of Defense and the president. I can keep executing my mission indefinitely. We have three missions at JTF Guantánamo. The first is the safe, humane and legal care and custody of detained enemy combatants. And all those words are very specifically chosen. The care we provide is safe and humane. It's legal. And it's transparent. I host and take around congressmen and members of the press. The International Committee for the Red Cross has access to all of our detainees, so the transparency piece is very important to me and our government. The second mission is an intelligence collection, assessment and dissemination mission – to ensure the safety of the detainee guard force and the other caregivers as well as the safety of the detainees themselves. And when we come across something that's significant to the greater global war on terrorism, we forward that to the appropriate intelligence or law enforcement agencies. And the third mission is the support to Office of Military Commissions. I don't run the commissions process. I support it logistically. I transport and provide security for the detainees who go to those proceedings, and also provide some IT and other infrastructures.
Will your successor in 20 years have the same mission you do today? You think so?
Yes, sir, I do. It would depend, of course, on whatever policy decisions are made by this administration and subsequent administrations and the outcome of the Office and Military Commissions process. As you know, detainees' status is reviewed annually. Some of them are approved for transfer.
What's the largest number you've ever had there and how many have been transferred, deported to other countries, etc?
About 500 have been transferred.
So how many do you have today?
Right now I've got about 260.
When you say transferred, do you mean they have been let go or they have been assigned to other facilities?
They've been transferred to other governments who had procedures or programs to rehabilitate them.
Where have they gone?
I can only speak to what's occurred in the three months I've been in command, but they've gone back to Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. Those are the two I can think of off the top of my head.
These were decisions made by Defense Department officials?
Defense Department officials in coordination with the State Department in coordination with other governments.
Tell us about the guards under your command.
I've got an incredibly motivated, talented and highly trained guard force. I've got about 1,100. More than half of them are Navy, and the remainder are a military police battalion from the Army.
So why is the story out there so bad?
Great question. This is is just my opinion. If you Google GITMO, the first image you'll see is the iconic photo of Camp X-Ray and some detainees in orange jumpsuits with black hoods over their heads with guards over them. They're actually Department of Defense photos. They were taken during the very brief period of time when Camp X-Ray was the only facility on Guantánamo that we could put our detainees in.
If you could, explain what Camp X-Ray is.
X-Ray was built in the '90s, housed some unruly migrants that were in Guantánamo. If you'll recall, in 1991 and then again in the mid-90s we had a Caribbean mass migration operation. We took them all, or most of them, to Guantánamo, built some facilities that are still in existence and were the only facilities available in January of 2002 when we brought the first detainees off the battlefields of Afghanistan. If you'll put it in context, this was when the Twin Towers were still two smoking piles of rubble in downtown New York City, so our message was that we were finding and capturing these detainees. That's sort of the iconic image associated with this mission. That's the image that's still out there. In fact, those facilities aren't used anymore. They were only used very briefly until more appropriate permanent structures were built.
Describe the physical facility. How are the prisoners kept?
Detainees.
Detainees, forgive me.
To start with the high end, my Camp Five is a maximum security facility built in the United States, modularly constructed and floated over to Guantánamo and assembled. It is a maximum security U.S. Federal Bureau of Corrections-style detention facility. Camp Six was designed as a medium security facility. In 2006, there was a riot in one of our camps, so we took Camp Six and it is a maximum security as well. Camp Four is for my highly compliant detainees. They have group recreation for upward of 12 hours a day, and it's a communal style living facility for the highly compliant detainees. In all my detention facilities, all the detainees, even the ones who are the least compliant and have the most discipline problems, get at least two hours of communal recreation a day.
What kind of discipline problems do the least compliant detainees create?
Attempting to strike a guard, or actually succeeding in striking a guard. There's this concoction – euphemistically titled a body fluid cocktail – that they will occasionally toss on a guard or attempt to, things of that nature. So, again, back to the facilities themselves. They all get recreation, group recreation, and in some of the camps they get newspapers, USA Today, a redacted copy.
Isn't the problem for your image that you're so often conflated, inaccurately, with everything that went on at Abu Ghraib?
Sure, that's probably a good assessment.
There are arguments that the Pentagon hasn't pushed back as much as it should against the notion that Abu Ghraib is the norm rather than something that was a horrible but brief period.
I can't tell you what I don't know, and I don't know. I can tell you there's nothing that goes on at Guantánamo that I would be embarrassed or ashamed to show my mom or my kids.
What about the interrogation techniques and that sort of thing?
I'm not a professional interrogator, nor am I an intelligence officer. I can tell you that you could probably characterize the interrogation as an interview. It's completely voluntary. The detainee can decide not to go. He can decide to terminate the interview or the interrogation at any point. And, in fact, about a third of the interviews or interrogations are at the request of the detainee.
So there's none of the coercive measures that we saw at Abu Ghraib and that the Congress has debated? None of that goes on? There's nothing at Guantánamo that is coercive?
Absolutely not. I'm personally accountable for the safety and health of the detainees, personally accountable. My detainee guard force, that's their role in all this, to ensure the safety and well-being of the detainees. So when they have these interviews or interrogations, they're monitored by video. They're in a closed room, with a big fluffy blue sofa for the detainee. The interviewer sits in a chair and they have a discussion. They just sit there and talk. But it's monitored by video, not recorded, no sound. But my guard can ensure that both the detainee and the interviewer are safe.
There are high-value detainees there?
Yes there are. They're in a separate camp called Camp Seven, whose existence was acknowledged last December, whose location is undisclosed for reasons of national security, but it is in Guantánamo. I'm accountable for them just like the other 240-some detainees, so their medical treatment, their food, their guard force, everything else is exactly the same as the other detainees get.
What about some of the cultural issues that have come up?
We have about six different menus, and there are over 60 special meals, depending on the dietary need or health concern. All the food is prepared strictly in accordance with the Halal process, the Islamic requirements. We strictly observe the five prayer times. Silence is maintained during the prayer call. Each detainee block has got a self-appointed or elected imam.
We issue them prayer kits, prayer rugs, prayer beads.