The Dambusters - Page 8




 
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March 22nd, 2015  
tetvet
 
Germans shooting up Schools , pubs and maybe 'loos makes one wonder as the average 109 had about 20 min of air time over England due to fuel consumption it would seem the 109 would seek a more worthy target .
March 22nd, 2015  
BritinAfrica
 
 
The BF 109 had 30 minutes of fuel over London before they were forced to turn back. A fighter can do a lot of damage in 30 minutes. However, the aircraft concerned here was a bomber heading for Enfield Lock small arms factory.
March 22nd, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
The aircraft concerned crashed taking out a row of houses not far from the pub. As he was actually there when it happened, covered in glass as the windows were blown in, I wouldnt think he imagined it.
I am struggling to imagine a German bomber or any bomber for that matter spend the last few seconds it had before it crashed shooting up a town.

After all this is an aircraft that would be normally flying at 28,000 feet over London and my understanding is that once it becomes obvious that the aircraft is going to crash the crew tend to be more concerned with getting out of the aircraft rather than carrying out some death dive into the corner pub.

I certainly have no trouble believing a bomber crashed into a row of houses after being shot down I just suspect the crew were long gone or dead well before it got to the state where its 7.62mm guns could effectively be used on a building.

As I said I do not believe the man was lying or making it up as he had no reason to but I think there has to be a different reason for what happened.
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March 23rd, 2015  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am struggling to imagine a German bomber or any bomber for that matter spend the last few seconds it had before it crashed shooting up a town.

After all this is an aircraft that would be normally flying at 28,000 feet over London and my understanding is that once it becomes obvious that the aircraft is going to crash the crew tend to be more concerned with getting out of the aircraft rather than carrying out some death dive into the corner pub.

I certainly have no trouble believing a bomber crashed into a row of houses after being shot down I just suspect the crew were long gone or dead well before it got to the state where its 7.62mm guns could effectively be used on a building.

As I said I do not believe the man was lying or making it up as he had no reason to but I think there has to be a different reason for what happened.
I would assume LeEnfield would have more knowledge regarding the height the Luftwaffe bombed at as he was there and witnessed it. As a WW1 vet on the Somme and Hill 60 when it blew up, my grandfather would know when he was being shot at for whatever reason
March 23rd, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
I am not sure I agree, I would have a lot more faith in Luftwaffe flight records than anyone's eyeballs.

Obviously aircraft operated at much lower levels for different reasons but bomber operations generally took place between 18,000 and 28,000 feet this was extended to 30,000 later on.
March 23rd, 2015  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am not sure I agree, I would have a lot more faith in Luftwaffe flight records than anyone's eyeballs.

Obviously aircraft operated at much lower levels for different reasons but bomber operations generally took place between 18,000 and 28,000 feet this was extended to 30,000 later on.
I'm sure Luftwaffe records would not record every aircraft that was shot down or where they crashed.

A crashed German Bomber with human remains on board was found in Epping Forest many years after the war. No one knew it was there until it was stumbled upon by accident.

RAF fighter aircraft were still being found many years after the war ended.

After 71 years, a British historian has located the final resting place for a heroic young Royal Air Force pilot who was listed as missing in action and presumed dead in May 1940 during World War II.

22-year-old Flying Officer Derek Allen when a German gunner shot his plane down over farmland in northern France. When Allenís parents were first told their son was missing in action, it was hoped that he might have been captured by the Germans and still be alive. Much later in the war, a RAF adjutant visited to tell them his plane had crashed and he was presumed dead. When the war ended in 1945, Derek Allen was one of 40,000 missing British airmen.

I would suggest that records were not complete, either RAF or Luftwaffe.
March 23rd, 2015  
LeEnfield
 
 
When the school was attacked the aircraft were about 100 feet of the ground and we could see the pilots so I think they must have been below 28.000. Like many British planes they came in low to get under the radar and many of the German bombers did the same thing. When they came in low gunner on the German bombers would often let off a few rounds in your direction. As children we soon learnt to pick out the aircraft by their engine noise as helped keep you alive. Living in what was called bomb alley we were often treated to this and of course every German Gunner in the aircraft is going to put this on their flight reports. As the war progressed we felt that the Germans came over and picked out targets of opportunity. I currently live on the south coast of England were we have remembered a large number of Canadians who were killed when the Germans bombed the town at random, now there is no way that the Germans knew just who living were and many of these men had been billet with local families so when they killed the soldiers along with the civilians it was for them a lucky hit.
 


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