The Dambusters - Page 3




 
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March 13th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
tevet

You say that many Americans were appalled at the destruction at Dresden, Yet when America fire bombed the cities in Japan it made Dresden look like a sunday school picnic.
The Japanese cities were bombed with napalm and around 100.000 died in Tokyo, more people died in this attack than died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together. Yet they will happily have a go at the RAF for carrying out the raid on Dresden.
Curtis Lemay was just as bad or worse than Bomber Harris. Regardless of who killed more by bombing civilian population centers and they both approved operations that took many 100.000's of thousands of lives. They both had a complete lack of respect for civilian casualties. Oh BTW didn't the Americans participate in the bombing of Dresden as well. I thought after the British hit the city a wave of American bombers came in afterword's?
March 13th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Curtis Lemay was just as bad or worse than Bomber Harris. Regardless of who killed more by bombing civilian population centers and they both approved operations that took many 100.000's of thousands of lives. They both had a complete lack of respect for civilian casualties. Oh BTW didn't the Americans participate in the bombing of Dresden as well. I thought after the British hit the city a wave of American bombers came in afterword's?
The allied bombed the city for four days and if the Brits were doing it at night and the Americans by day. If we try to implement today's morals to what occurred during the Second World War, we are making a historical error when we are actually taking the decision making of the war out of its context.
March 13th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
The allied bombed the city for four days and if the Brits were doing it at night and the Americans by day. If we try to implement today's morals to what occurred during the Second World War, we are making a historical error when we are actually taking the decision making of the war out of its context.
The Americans absolutely didn't let civilian causalities get in the way of winning the war with Germany. If a building was a German stronghold or contained snipers it was shelled regardless if civilians were in it or not. One big difference between the allies and Germany was we didn't target civilians for murder and I won't go on and on about that. However we were the good guys and welcomed with open arms in most of France, Italy, Belgium and even parts of war weary Germany. If the American army today fought the way they did in WW2 we'd create an international uproar.
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March 13th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
The Americans absolutely didn't let civilian causalities get in the way of winning the war with Germany. If a building was a German stronghold or contained snipers it was shelled regardless if civilians were in it or not. One big difference between the allies and Germany was we didn't target civilians for murder and I won't go on and on about that. However we were the good guys and welcomed with open arms in most of France, Italy, Belgium and even parts of war weary Germany. If the American army today fought the way they did in WW2 we'd create an international uproar.
I begin to think about the Second World War as something abnormal. The logistical part of it is still used as a reference. The war was so immense so we cannot really grasp the magnitude of it. I hope we will never see something like this again, when all involved countries resources went into the war effort. So if the Second World War has a legacy, we cannot allow this to happen again, we will not survive it as a humanity. The allied destroyed the German cities and during the blitz the Germans did more or less the same. Dresden was destroyed because of the war effort, was it right or was it wrong? Who cares now.
March 13th, 2015  
sandwichery
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
tevet

Yet they will happily have a go at the RAF for carrying out the raid on Dresden.
I might be mistaken, but I believe the USAAF had a hand in the attacks on Dresden also.
March 13th, 2015  
tetvet
 
You are not mistaken the Americans did a day light raid on Dresden following the Brits .
March 13th, 2015  
LeEnfield
 
 
There is all this talk what we did to the enemy yet no one mentions the German bombing of Stalingrad where they killed over 50.000 people in one raid and created a firestorm. When the Germans first tried to fire bomb London the raid was carried on a date of a very low tide and at a time of that low tide and if it had not been for the organisation of the fire brigade and their bravery then London could well have suffered the same fate as Dresden. Fire engines and crews as far north as Birmingham were in London fighting the fires and these attacks went on for over two months non stop. If you had lived in Britain at this time you would have found little pity when the RAF paid the Germans back for what they had been going through. During WW 2 there were very few innocent people for all those that were not fighting were making munitions for the forces, the only innocents were the children.
March 14th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
There is all this talk what we did to the enemy yet no one mentions the German bombing of Stalingrad where they killed over 50.000 people in one raid and created a firestorm. When the Germans first tried to fire bomb London the raid was carried on a date of a very low tide and at a time of that low tide and if it had not been for the organisation of the fire brigade and their bravery then London could well have suffered the same fate as Dresden. Fire engines and crews as far north as Birmingham were in London fighting the fires and these attacks went on for over two months non stop. If you had lived in Britain at this time you would have found little pity when the RAF paid the Germans back for what they had been going through. During WW 2 there were very few innocent people for all those that were not fighting were making munitions for the forces, the only innocents were the children.
My great grandfather was killed by a V2 in London. Though not during the BoB, these V weapons also took a toll.
March 14th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
There is all this talk what we did to the enemy yet no one mentions the German bombing of Stalingrad where they killed over 50.000 people in one raid and created a firestorm. When the Germans first tried to fire bomb London the raid was carried on a date of a very low tide and at a time of that low tide and if it had not been for the organisation of the fire brigade and their bravery then London could well have suffered the same fate as Dresden. Fire engines and crews as far north as Birmingham were in London fighting the fires and these attacks went on for over two months non stop. If you had lived in Britain at this time you would have found little pity when the RAF paid the Germans back for what they had been going through. During WW 2 there were very few innocent people for all those that were not fighting were making munitions for the forces, the only innocents were the children.
That is a classic "whataboutery" response the argument that because someone else did it is not a justification for doing the same thing yourself especially if you are busily claiming that you are fighting to stop others from doing those things.
March 14th, 2015  
LeEnfield
 
 
Monty.....You are at war and if your opponent attacks you in certain way are you saying that you should just take it regardless of the cost of life to your people or do you use the same tactics against him. The only thing that stopped the Germans using chemical warfare in WW 2 was that they knew if they used it then it would be used against them. During the cold war the only thing that stopped it getting hot was every knew that if war broke out it would go nuclear and every one would lose. The Germans in 1939 /40 were so strong military they could not see how they could lose and attacked with a no holds attitude in order to crush all those that stood in their way. Also I grew up during this time just south of London and witnessed the carnage first hand.
 


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