Crime in Britain in 2003 (Or "How to Create a Violent Society")

According to the International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College London, the U.S. currently has the largest documented prison population in the world, both in absolute and proportional terms. The US has got roughly 2.03 million people behind bars, or 701 per 100,000 population. China has the second-largest number of prisoners (1.51 million, for a rate of 117 per 100,000), and Russia has the second-highest rate (606 per 100,000, for a total of 865,000). Russia had the highest rate for years, but has released hundreds of thousands of prisoners since 1998; meanwhile the U.S. prison population has grown by even more
 
Somehow, the number of bad people behind bars doesn't bother me as much as the ones who are on the street. It says the US capture and conviction rate is one of the highest in the world. Death row is a little too slow moving as far as I'm concerned but that's all I have against the US penal system. As for the high rate of incarceration, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
 
What goes for a crime these days includes drug use, which sends you to prison. I have no idea why they don't send substance abusers with no violent crime to rehabilitation centers and then put them on parole to see if they can be a citizen again. A lot of prisoners in america are in for drug related charges and that inflates the whole penitentary system. I don't know why there is such a large prison population if the crime rate nationally has been going down since the early 90s.

And i don't think it has to do with putting more prisoners in jail since the crime rate applies to recent crimes and the reasons they occur
 
We should put a speed lane in Death Row. Kill someone and have three witnesses plus that little thing called proof. BAM! You go to the head of the line.

So what, we punish our criminals.

England sends the good guys to prison.

Case in point.

Anthony Edward Martin (born 1944) is a Norfolk farmer and cause célèbre as a result of his action in shooting two burglars who were robbing his home; he was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison, but his conviction was reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

Martin lived in a run-down, isolated farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, nick-named "Bleak House". He had been burgled several times and in May 1999 had apparently lost £6,000 worth of furniture. He complained about police inaction on the burglaries. His shotgun license was revoked in 1994.

On the night of August 20, 1999 two burglars, Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16, entered Bleak House. In the darkness of the night Martin fired his shotgun, wounding both of the intruders; Fearon in the leg, Barras in the back. Barras died in the grounds, though Fearon was able to leave and got medical assistance. Martin subsequently left the farm and spent the night at a friend's house.

On 10 January 2000 Fearon and Darren Bark, 33, both from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire, admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years, Bark to 30 months (with an additional 12 months from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001.

On 10 April 2000 Martin was charged with murder (of Barras), attempted murder (of Fearon), wounding with intent to cause injury (of Fearon) and possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life.

At his trial, Martin claimed that on the night of August 20, 1999, he was awakened by sounds in his home. He took his shotgun and came downstairs, he claimed, to be confronted by a torch being shone in his face. A 29 year old man, Brendon Fearon, and an accomplice of 16, Fred Barras, were stealing from the house. Martin fired three shots in the dark and in doing so killed the youth, and injured the older man. Martin was later arrested and charged with the murder of Barras and the wounding of Fearon with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. Martin was bailed; it was claimed by police that there was information of an underworld contract on his head for £60,000.

The jury at the trial found Martin guilty of murder by a 10 to 2 majority. They had been told that they had the option of returning a verdict of manslaughter if they thought that Tony Martin "did not intend to kill or cause serious bodily harm".

Martin was sentenced to life in prison, the mandatory sentence for murder. The case had attracted considerable media interest and the life sentence shocked many.

An appeal was lodged and, in due course, Martin's appeal went before three senior judges headed by Lord Lane.

Martin's case was highlighted by William Hague, then leader of the Tories. Hague's actions arguably contributed to his growing image as the opportunist 'Billy Bandwagon' as it was thought Martin's case had little appeal beyond the Tory 'core vote'.

Submissions by the defence that Martin had fired in self defence were rejected by the appeal court. But on this occasion the defence submitted evidence that Martin suffered paranoid personality disorder specifically directed at anyone intruding into his home; this submission was accepted by the Court of Appeal, and on the grounds of diminished responsibility, Martin's murder conviction vacated and replaced with manslaughter carrying a five year sentence, and his 10-year sentence for wounding the Fearon cut to three years, to run concurrently.

Martin was imprisoned in Highpoint prison, Suffolk. When he became eligible for parole and early release the Parole Board rejected his application; probation officers on Martin's cases said there was an "unacceptable risk" that Martin might again react with excessive force if other would-be burglars intruded on his Norfolk farm.

Martin stated that he would do the same thing again if he encountered the same circumstances.

The Sun newspaper ran a continuous campaign supporting Tony Martin, with one front-page headline (2nd April 2000) stating that 55,000 readers had telephoned their support for him. On the 8th July 2003 they ran another full-page article (p.9) with the headline Sun readers have risen in defence of decency, with a personal letter of thanks from Martin, and picture.

On July 28, 2003 Martin was released after serving over three years of his five year sentence, the maximum he could be held for given good behaviour, three days after Fearon was released from a drugs conviction, on the earliest date possible[citation needed]. The contrast led to another public outcry.

Since his release Martin has appeared on the platform of the United Kingdom Independence Party and has also endorsed the British National Party, both parties have advocated changes in the law to stop prosecutions of people attacking intruders as well as less restrictive firearm controls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

In the Florida, if a criminal breaks into my house and tries to rob me the law states that I can legally defend myself. Your so called low crime England punishes it's citizens for trying to defend themselves from criminals.
 
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What goes for a crime these days includes drug use, which sends you to prison. I have no idea why they don't send substance abusers with no violent crime to rehabilitation centers and then put them on parole to see if they can be a citizen again. A lot of prisoners in america are in for drug related charges and that inflates the whole penitentary system. I don't know why there is such a large prison population if the crime rate nationally has been going down since the early 90s.

And i don't think it has to do with putting more prisoners in jail since the crime rate applies to recent crimes and the reasons they occur

You're complicating a simple subject, crime and punishment. There are laws for punishing lawbreakers, laws made by people like you and I. Some will think they are too harsh and some will think too lenient. I have been on my share of juries and I simply looked at what the DA had for evidence against a person and if it has been proven to me that they broke the laws as written and practiced by the preponderance of society, I voted my opinion.

I don't think halfway houses should be used for most types of criminals, the whole idea is to have them behind a solid wall between society and themselves. There is no half way for murder, rape, robbery, or child molestation.
 
There is no half way for murder, rape, robbery, or child molestation.

Yeah, i was talking about minor drug offenders who were sent to prison. They need rehabilitation clinics since they can't stop taking drugs that are hurting them and causing society problems. I'm not saying we should let them off the hook, certainly they need to do some community service and be on probation for a while, but non violent drug related crimes shouldn't merit a penintentary sentence.
 
We should put a speed lane in Death Row. Kill someone and have three witnesses plus that little thing called proof. BAM! You go to the head of the line.

So what, we punish our criminals.

England sends the good guys to prison.

Case in point.



In the Florida, if a criminal breaks into my house and tries to rob me the law states that I can legally defend myself. Your so called low crime England punishes it's citizens for trying to defend themselves from criminals.

Just wanted to say that there's more to the Tony Martin case than that snippet implies. It's probably not the best example to support your argument. Tony Martin was far from a law abiding citizen minding his own business and the main reasons why he was charged with murder was because he 'allegedly' a) set a trap for his 2 victims so he could shoot them (premeditation) and b) shot one of them in the back as he was running away.

http://www.sundayherald.com/35691
 
Yeah, i was talking about minor drug offenders who were sent to prison. They need rehabilitation clinics since they can't stop taking drugs that are hurting them and causing society problems. I'm not saying we should let them off the hook, certainly they need to do some community service and be on probation for a while, but non violent drug related crimes shouldn't merit a penintentary sentence.

I agree with the minor drug offenders if they aren't comitting other crimes to support a habit or selling. I don't think the percentage of that type of offender is very high in penitentiaries but I haven't looked up any statistics on that. Most of the minor drug offenses are handled at the County level with pretty short terms in County jails. Repeat offenders receive longer sentences and a requirement to attend a rehabilitation clinic.
 
How do other countries compare to these statistics? Are they worse, the same, better? Post some examples with as much information as the US publishes just for comparison then you will have an interesting subject to discuss.

The statistics for Norway, 2005, crimes reported to the police. The 2004 figures are in (). (Norway have approximately 4.8 million people)

Source: http://www.ssb.no/emner/03/05/a_krim_tab/tab/tab-2006-02-13-01.html

Crimes reported to the police by category:

Economical crime: 8 097 (7 915)
Other economical crimes: 192 369 (206 250)
Violence: 25 064 (24 874)
Sexual crime: 3 311 (3 608 )
Drug/Narcotics: 37 597 (37 259)
Damages/damaging private property: 20 908 (20 345)
Eco crimes/ecological crime: 2 647 (2 399)
Work enviroment crime: 862 (801)
Traffic: 61 825 (62 606)
Other: 41 621 (41 320)
 
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How are the prisons ran in your country? In the USA the prisoners get 3 squares a day, warm bed, exercise time, phone calls, tv, a chance at an education, plus all sorts of mental counseling and social rehabilitation. Perhaps if we made our prisons less "attractive" then we wouldn't have so many in prison.

I personally feel that they should get 3 hots and a cot, basic health care, perhaps 2 hours exercise time per day, religious services, a GED if they have no high school diploma and work location when they complete their sentence. No more and no less. This bit of paying for cable, higher education and all the other sundry little things they get that prisoners didn't used to have are BS in my opinion.

But then again I am also for using prison labor for state beautification. Clean the streets and highways, clear land, do any manual and/or unskilled labor that needs to be done. This way if someone does commit a crime they know they will actually be working and not lazing about in a cell.

Let's talk about "freedoms taken away" by being in a cell. Heck, I went thru Marine Corps boot camp and a few other training camps that are 100 times more harsh and restricting than the prisons I have seen on TV and in person were.

With few exceptions, 1) I didn't have "bubba" trying to put "it" up my backside 2) I didn't have to worry about the guy in line behind me trying to stick a shiv in my ribs 3) I didn't have to worry about what I was going to do when I got out/done.
 
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