Creation of the State of Israel

Corocotta

Active member
Hi guys!

I have always been interested in the creation of Israel state. Mainly all the problems that we have with the muslim word are in a way or another relationated with this event that took place in 1948; the UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being. The territory allotted to the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was taken over by Israel and Jordan, in these days they are not still allowed to come back home.

I think that the creation of this state was necesary, after WW II there was a huge stateless human mass that needed a territory where develop. I disagree in the way this state was created, I disagree in the way not in the purpose. I will explain my self, but before I would like to clarify some things in order to understand better the situation:

a)During the British Mandate, both of the parts, jews and Palestinians practiced the terrorism. Jewish terrorism was lots more brutal than arab. We just have to remember events like King David Hotel bombing were 90 people were killed. The first jewish terrorist group was Ha-Shomer (Guild of Watchman) established in 1909. It was a small group of Jewish immigrants who guarded settlements for an annual fee. At no time did the group have more than 100 members. In 1936 the Haganah (The role of the Haganah was to guard the Jewish Kibbutzim and farms ) fielded 10,000 mobilized men along with 40,000 reservists. During the Great Uprising 1936-1939, it participated actively to protect British interests and to quell Arab insurgence. Although the British administration didn't officially recognize the Haganah the British Security Forces cooperated with it by forming the Jewish Settlement Police, Jewish Auxiliary Forces and Special Night Squads. In 1937, the most right-wing elements of Haganah formed Irgun Zvai-Leumi. They were discontented with the policy of restraint when faced with British and Arab pressure. Irgun and their off-shoot, the Stern gang terrorist group, became well-known for their clandestine combat method

b)Before the creation of jewish terrorist groups there were some Arab riots: 1.-Warning signs: During their annual spring festival Nebi Musa (Prophet Moses), Muslims march from Jerusalem on the road to Jericho to where they believe Moses is buried. In the years predating 1920, these processions were marked by intimidation of Christian communities on their way. 2.- After Emir Faisal I had agreed to the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine by signing the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919,the Jerusalem Mayor Musa Khazim al-Husayni, rejected this agreement made in their name and relations between Arabs and Jews worsened. This agreement was rejected because it did not meet the conditions that Prince Faisal wrote next to his signature, which rendered the agreement non-binding. This condition was that an independent Syrian state be created prior to the agreement taking effect. It is worth noting that this state was never created during Prince Faisal's reign. 3.- April 4-7 1920: During a procession on April 4, 1920, inflammatory anti-Semitic rhetoric led to rioting in Jerusalem. One of the inciters was Hajj Amin al-Husayni, a young nephew of the mayor of Jerusalem, another was the editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia ("Southern Syria") Aref al-Aref, who delivered his speech on horseback. The Arab mob went on to ransack the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, beating anyone they could find and looting shops and homes. The riots lasted for four days. Fatalities: 5 Jews, 4 Arabs. Wounded: 216 Jews (18 critically), 23 Arabs (1 critically), 7 British soldiers

c) Other interesting point is how the creation was made, check this link to see how was the partition of Palestine map: http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1947-un-partition-plan-reso.html See the diference in coast km? Israel had 273, Palestine 25!Other point are the natural resources, the Israeli land is lots richer, for example in: copper, phosphates, bromide, potash, clay, sand, sulfur, asphalt, manganese, small amounts of natural gas and crude oil.We also have the water problem: http://www.passia.org/publications/research_studies/Water-Book/Water-forward.htm Don you think this is a fare division???????

d) To finish, many countries said that during the votation of UN Resolution 181 they suffered tons of presion from US to give a favourable vote to the creation of Israel ( We all know that in US there is a very important and influyent jewish lobby)

What do you guys think??
 
I think like this..

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:lol:
 
:D Very sarcastic!! :D
However, I did not say that the creation of Israel was unjust, I just said that it should have been done in a diferent way. Giving the rich and with sea part to ones and the desert to anothers is not very fare.
 
I fully agree above, the site is supported and created by Pro-Zionists.

I've got the general idea of their ideals by reading several topics of the site's forums, many in which are anti-Palestinian.
 
Oh no, zionists! run way, run away... :D Common.

Either way, staurofilakes, we had this discussion before... The dvision was mainly done by demographics, Israel got the parts that were largly inhabited by Jews. The Galil, probably the Riches agricultre ground in Palestine/Israel, was given to the Arabs. So were Judea and Sameria, which are very good for agriculture. Israel was given an almost impossibly nerrow strip of shore, and the Negev, a desolate desert.
 
SHERMAN said:
Oh no, zionists! run way, run away... :D Common.

Either way, staurofilakes, we had this discussion before... The dvision was mainly done by demographics, Israel got the parts that were largly inhabited by Jews. The Galil, probably the Riches agricultre ground in Palestine/Israel, was given to the Arabs. So were Judea and Sameria, which are very good for agriculture. Israel was given an almost impossibly nerrow strip of shore, and the Negev, a desolate desert.

I know we had this discussion once before, but I thought that opening a specific topic would be nice.
Concerning the agriculture I could agree with you, but what about natural resources and water? I aldo do not see very fare that palestinians only got a really short pieze of coast. Having a coast is something vital for the economic develop of a nation. What about the refugees? And the way UNSC resolution 181 was voted?
 
I certainly agree that the coast is vital to the any organized society's economic needs and Palestine lacks one, though there are plenty of nations that has no coastal regions at all. UNSC Resolution 181 was voted to split the land into two seperate states Palestine/Israel but overlooked this arguement over Coastal Regions.
 
I founded a quite interesting article:

Before a single Arab army soldier entered Palestine, on May 15, 1948[on the termination of British government in Palestine], the Zionist forces had driven out 350,000 Palestinians from their homes and occupied scores of cities[including Jaffa and Acre] and towns assigned for a Palestinian state in the UN resolution # 181." These are the facts, documented by UN agencies and Israeli and international historians. Scores of massacres, like the massacre of Deir Yassin, on April 9,1948, before British troops left and Arab armies entered Palestine, were committed by the Zionist forces. Israeli history researcher, Uri Milstein, celebrated in Israel as the dispeller of myths, confirms the evaluation regarding the volume of massacres reported by another Israeli historian, Ariyeh Yitzhaki, and goes further: " If Yitzhaki claims that there were murders in almost every [Palestinian] village, then I say up to the inception of Israel, every event of fighting ended in a massacre of Arabs. There were massacres of Arabs in all of Israel's wars, but I have no doubt that the War of Independence was the dirtiest [emphasis added] ." Dov Joseph, a later Minister of Justice of Israel called the Deir Yassin massacre a "deliberate and unprovoked attack", while the noted British historian, Professor Arnold Toynbee described it as '" comparable to crimes committed against the Jews by the Nazis."

As to who started the offensive war, Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun Zvei Leumi terrorist group, tells it as it was : " In Jerusalem, as elsewhere, we were the first to pass from the defensive to the offensive....Arabs began to flee in terror. Hagana was carrying out successful attacks on other fronts while all the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter. The Arabs began to flee in panic shouting 'Deir Yassin'." He added: " in the months preceding the Arab invasion, and while five Arab states were conducting preparations, we continued to make sallies into Arab territory. The conquest of Jaffa stands out as an event of first rate importance." { Begin, Menachem, " The Revolt : Story of the Irgun" New York, Henry Schuman, 1951}.

It is true that the Arab nations and the Palestinians rejected the Partition resolution, because it was unjust, and it violates the UN Charter. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly passed the reolution #181. This resolution was passed under pressure and coercion against certain Latin American, Asian and African states, by the US. Under-Secretary of State Sumner Welles stated : " By direct order of the White House, every form of pressure, direct and indirect, was used to make sure that the necessary majority would be gained." At that time, the Jews constituted one third of the population of Palestine and owned 5.6% of the land. This resolution apportioned to the Jewish state 56% of the land and only 43% to the Christian and Muslim Arabs, who owned over 90% of the land. Jerusalem, as a Corpus Separatum. Is it surprising that the Palestinians objected to this unjust resolution ?

Ms. Fran Morrison [" Ethnic cleansing" June 11] has got her facts wrong. She states that " Jerusalem was made Juden Rein [cleansed of Jews], 1948 to 1967, under Jordanian rule." That is in error. The Western part of Jerusalem, which constitutes over 70% of the city area was occupied by Israel and was cleansed of all its Muslim and Christian citizens, who owned over 60% of that area. They were systematically driven out and never allowed to return. Indeed, international law prohibits the destruction of property, including religious sites and cemetries. The Jewish cemetery on Mount of Olives in East Jerusalem was kept intact, apart from few headstones, under Jordanian rule and remains to this day. On the other hand, at the site of the ruins of the major hisoric Muslim cemetery of Mamilla, in West Jerusalem, stands the Hilton Hotel ! Besides that 468 Palestinian towns and villages, including their mosques, churches and cemeterys, in pre- 1967 borders, were systematically demolished and erased from the face of the earth. That is not to mention the destruction of total villages like Imwas [Emmaus], Yalu and Beit Nuba [my own hometown] which were wiped out in 1967, on the direct orders of Mr. Yitzhak Rabin. As well, since 1967, thousands of Palestinian homes have been and continue to be bulldozed and demolished by Israel in the West Bank and Gaza.

It is time for Israel's apologists to begin to look at the facts and take note of the words of men and women of humanity and honour in Israel, Like Israel Shahak, Lea Tsemel and Felicia Langer, who relate factually the horrendous crimes that Israel is perpetuating against the Palestinian people.

Yours sincerely,

Ismail Zayid, M.D.

http://izayid.tripod.com/hhJune11_02.htm
 
To some, UN Resolution 181 seems to be an occupation instead. This was mentioned both from Palestinians and Iraelis.
 
Yes, sounds like an occupation to me also. I guess that if UN would have made a fare distribution of the land, of the natural resources and of the coast line everything would be diferent today.
 
I guess that if UN would have made a fare distribution of the land, of the natural resources and of the coast line everything would be diferent today.

Seems fair enough. Though, we'll never the outcome because there are also other big issues that contributed to this problem as well.
 
No chance guys. The Arabs wouldent have any of it. They would have turned down any partition. It was not occupation, it was historical justice. The Palestians, who by the way did not exist as a nationality until the late 1930s, never made the right decison about anything in their history. Instead they rather be playing pieces in the hands of Arab countries that use them to fight Israel. If they had accepted the partition, and were not so quick to move when the Arab countries told them to, they might have been independent in 1948. It was the Arabs own arrogance that caused this. Their trust in noumbers over quality fails them eveytime. Think about where the Arab countries could be today if they spent all their tank and plane money on education and technology? If the Palestinians were no so eager to move out of the way and let the Arab countries finish us off, they would still have their homes. And let me tell you another thing... If the UN was smart enough to force that decision over both sides than, this hole thing could have been done with. There should have been a total seperation between the populations, to each his own country, and an international force should have made that a fact. Instead the world ather leave 600000 Jews against 600000000 Muslims and maybe get rid of the Jews for good. Well, tough luck, we ain't going down so easy.
 
Little Israel was a desolate wasteland occuppied by mostly nomadic tribes but was turned into a veritable garden and extremely successful country. I find that hard to argue with.
 
CABAL said:
I fully agree above, the site is supported and created by Pro-Zionists.

I've got the general idea of their ideals by reading several topics of the site's forums, many in which are anti-Palestinian.

I don't really mind that the site is biased in some way, but the fact that it is makes the 2 signs together not look funny. Only if it pokes fun at both sides of the argument can it be funny.
 
i think Isreal state exsits like thousands years ago,

they just want to go back to their land God has chosen for them (according to Bible)
 
CSmaster said:
they just want to go back to their land God has chosen for them (according to Bible)

Well, in the modern times you shouldn´t use divine law to reivindate a land. In other order of things, palestinians and jews are both semitic races, so I guess that during the bible era they used to live toguether.
 
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