Cracked me up, might offend some.

MovingTarget

Thanks for reminding me to fix my avatar, it got zapped when Redleg upgraded the server. I get alot of questions about my nationality. Essentially I'm in Bulldogg's situation. I'm a American ex-pat living abroad. Although I do have French citizenship as well. I dont quite get the Tipper Gore anology, I'm from the East Coast, you'll have to explain.

To business...

First of all this is the military. And in the military you dont have all the freebees that the Constitution provides, plus there is the code of military conduct to consider. If Pvt. Beliel wanted to artistically express himself, then he should have chosen showbiz, the Marines was definatly the wrong choice.

Secondly, as in all things. There is a line. Would you joke about the Holocaust in front of a bunch of concentration camp survivors? Or sing songs praising the lynchings in the south in front of Afro-Americans? I dont know you, but I am going to guess no. Those are over the line. As was this. If it wasnt, then the USMC wouldnt have acted. Simple as that.

The problem with the song as opposed to your example (which is largely fiction), there are too many similarities between the song and a current, real world, situation. We have the USMC trying to keep a lid on a potential sh**storm in Haditha that would not only damage the image of the Marine Corps but more importantly the image of the country (whats left of it).

So what would you do if an idiot under your command who undermines the USMC Herculean task to put a lid on Haditha? The USMC response is hardly surprising.
 
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The private didn't want to express himself artistically. He wanted to try and help himself(as bulldogg mentioned earlier). He wanted to relieve the events and he chose song.

"There is a line."-Tell that to the Arabs who drank on 9/11. Stop using that one, because we are going to reiterate the same point to you...Otherwise known as the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. Since they treated us like that, we are gonna do the same to them.

The USMC responce is a bit surprising to me considering they(the men who hand out the punishments) have more than likely all been there...They know how it is to be messed up from a war...So how could they turn around and bash a collegue for trying to keep from having nightmares about Iraq?
 
'Tis a sad world we live in when we have to watch what we do or we might hurt our enemey's feelings. We wouldn't want that to happen now, would we?
 
Again,

Lets seperate Iraqi Civilians and Iraqi insurgents. My comments are for the former, the latter will roast in hell.
 
And again,

Lets remember the fact that what started this entire affair in the Middle Eastern Theatre was an attack on CIVILIANS.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
And again,

Lets remember the fact that what started this entire affair in the Middle Eastern Theatre was an attack on CIVILIANS.

Yes but let us not stoop down to their level and kill civillians as well. Dont get me wrong though I love the song.
 
Nor were Iraqi Civilians responsible for 9-11...


Anyway, there better things to do like Soccer! England vs Sweden, bye y'all...
 
Tipper Gore -- Wife of Al Gore. She wants to ban any music that has any sort of violent theme, profanity, suggestion of illegal activity, etc. She is largely responsible for the warning labels on music in the US that are usually ignored.

Thanks for the background info, mmarsh. As a newbie, I'm still working up dossiers for everyone.

If Belile had sung this song for Sergeant Major Estrada himself, he would have gotten a few laughs. The problem is that his method of blowing off steam made it into the mainstream. A lot of civilians, like me, find the song distasteful. Other civilians, completely unlike me, seem to have gotten extremely offended, and this, friends, is a HIGH CRIME. These pretentious [illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents] would string up the entire USMC because one of its members said something naughty so the USMC, in turn, is going to string up one of its own as a sacrificial lamb. So much for never leaving a man behind. This isn't a matter of free speech. It's a matter of common sense. Soldiers see terrible things. Soldiers talk about terrible things. Soldiers have been putting terrible things to music since the beginning of time.

Would I tell Holocaust jokes to survivors of the same? No. That certainly doesn't mean that said jokes don't exist, and it certainly doesn't mean that someone who tells one should be officially punished. Society has a way of balancing itself. If someones actions are distasteful to society in general, they're usually ostracized. If someone offends you, then don't invite them to tea, but don't search for some avenue to destroy them simply because you don't like what they say.

Unless the UCMJ prohibits joking about killing "Hajjis" leave this Marine the hell alone. He certainly hasn't done anything that thousands of other servicemen in Iraq don't do daily. The difference is that Belile got noticed.

tomtom22 said:
Removed by admin: changing the original text in quotes is NOT allowed! Don't try to do it again!
Consider this a warning
Fixed! ;-)
 
moving0target said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom22
Not quite true. There is that thing called the Geneva Conventions which the USA abides by.

Fixed! ;-)
Don't change my words and then put them in quotes. I did not say mostly, you did, and that is not proper.
 
There is nothing wrong with the song. War is about killing. Soldiers are exposed to heinous acts of violence and live through situations no one can understand unless you've been there. Every cop, every paramedic, every soldier has used black humour to help exorcise this from their minds so they can function and not end up in the corner sucking their thumb. There are cadences worse than that song. I have told jokes worse than that song. The only thing that went wrong with this is that people like you Marsh saw it and you and your ilk just don't get it. You can't begin to fathom what it is like and to judge the actions of a man in harm's way without ever having been there yourself is the height of cowardice. Stick to things within your depth and leave my brothers alone.

Marsh once you don the uniform and are put in harm's way I'll give your opinion credence.
 
Bulldogg

Fine, dont take my word for it, How about the USMC? Do you take their word on it? Because their spokesperson refered to the song as 'high inappriapriate'. And Pvt Beliel has apologized for it.

Let me spell it out for you to make sure you understand: the USMC says you are W R O N G.

That last extremely arrogent comment proves to me that your're simply too narrow minded to tolerate, let alone listen, to anybody elses opinion but your own. So why would I want to debate you either in or out of a uniform. I prefer conversations with who can be rational and respect other peoples opinions, you cannot do either.

And finally please spare me your macho BS rant, It neither impresses nor frightens me, and it certainly doesnt make me change my opinion, so save it for someone who cares...
 
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*whistles in exasperation* Wow mmarsh, touchy?

The USMC only did that because it would have hurt their strict military image if they did nothing when so many people were wrongly offended.

You would like to have a conversation with a rational person..I'd like to have a converstation who can debate without resorting to personal attacks on one of our respected members. Hell, on any member.You need to listen to bulldogg. He has been there. I read my uncles journals. Thats no where near the same thing, but it gives me insight as to what my uncle did to attempt to stay "out of the corner sucking his thumb."That someone who cares...That ought to be you.


By the way: I did it to Senior Chief, so it's only fair I do it to you...It's spelt arrogant.
 
Henderson

Re-read his Posts, 1. first he has the nerve to tell me that I didnt see something when in fact I did and proved it to him by posting the lyrics in my reply. 2. Then he tries patronizes me about my opinions and makes subtle allusions about cowardice. 3. Finally then he dismisses me totally by saying because I wasnt in the military my opinion doesnt count, blissfully ignoring the fact the USMC happens to agree with me. And all this because I dared to DISAGREE.

Sorry, but enough is enough. I didnt start this, and I dont apologize for my reply. And I really dont care how respected he, what his past is, his or how long he has been here. Nor do I mind if people politely disagree with me, I still treat people with respect. But if somebody gets nasty, arrogent, or rude I will not hestitate for one second to put that person in his/her place. I will not stand for rudeness, ever.

I am perfectly happy to continue this discussion or any other discussion with you or anybody as long as that simple rule is followed.
 
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Well, he has been there...He can tell you that he knows how it feels to see those horrible images and try to cope with them by using black humor. Im sure he would say the same thing to the USMC top brass too. Like I said, the USMC only said it because it got out. If it had stayed contained within the people who know and are OK with the fact that he was just venting his emotions, then nothing would have been done. The fact is, it got out to people who cannot appreciate it. It got out to civilians who have no idea of what he is trying to do. Thats the only reason the USMC feels they have to make an example of him.
 
Marsh, in my opinion, you do not have the right to criticise a man doing something you have never done. And don't confuse public kowtowing by officers as heartfelt by the Corps. And he's a Corporal, not a private.
 
No worries... some people think this is a game and there are those who put on airs online. I aint that way. WYSIWYG, ask any of my students (the bullpups) on here or Wingnut or El Glanvilhio... this is how I talk and this is what I believe. I don't water it down and I don't hype it up for anyone, not here and not in the flesh and blood world. This isnt macho :cen: this is what I truly believe. I am not PC and make no apologies for it... I offend some people but believe me when I say I am equally if not more offended with your judgement of this Marine, Mr Marsh for doing something you haven't done. No bull, it pisses me off when people do this... and it is cowardice to sit at home and criticise those with their arses in the breeze getting shot at while you are safe and sound in your warm bed.

<H2>“Hadji Girl” update: Islam Online makes hay (Update: Marine brass feeling heat from Belile’s defenders)
posted at 12:26 pm on June 15, 2006 by Allahpundit
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They place the song in the context of “insensitivity” towards Iraqis, which lets them segue into what they really want to talk about: Haditha. Looks like Allah gave them the green light to drop the word “alleged” when writing about it:
Last November, US soldiers killed 24 Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children, near Haditha as they had gone on rampage after their patrol was attacked…
The Pentagon decided on Thursday, April 1, to give ethic training to all its troops in Iraq following the Haditha massacre.
Let’s talk about insensitivity. The “About Us” page at Islam Online boasts of their connection to Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi; a separate page transcribes a speech given by Qaradawi trumpeting the site’s launch. Quote:
This is what this major, global project - Islam Online - is doing. It carries the message of Islam to the world. It addresses non-Muslims to help them understand the creed, law, ethics and civilization of Islam. It addresses Muslims as well, to help them understand correct Islam…
The speech conveniently omits the details of what the Sheikh regards as “correct Islam.” Perhaps we can fill in the blanks in the interest of demonstrating Islam Online’s good judgment when it comes to “insensitivity.”
All emphases are mine.
From 2002:
Saykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi delivers the sermon. …
Concluding, the imam prays to God: “O God, give us victory over your enemies, the enemies of Islam. O God, protect us from their evils, weaken them, wipe them out, destroy their power, and prevent them from committing aggression against your servants. O God, destroy the aggressor, treacherous Jews. O God, destroy the aggressor Americans. O God, destroy the fanatic pagans. O God, destroy the tyrannical Crusaders.”
From 2004:
An Egyptian cleric based in Qatar and often described as a moderate has ruled that it is a religious duty for Muslims to fight Americans in Iraq, including U.S. civilians, his office director said Thursday.
From 2005, an excerpt of his remarks to a conference held at … a youth center:
When I was only nine, the people of my village gave me the title ‘sheikh [who teaches] the Koran and religious science.’ I have devoted myself to religious propagation [da’wa] for the sake of Allah, and I have not relinquished the mission that Allah entrusted to me. I see myself as appointed by Allah. I will never withdraw from this mission. I hope my life will end with a virtuous death, like [the death] sought by warriors fighting Jihad for the sake of Allah…”
From February of this year — with video:
Everything will be on our side and against Jews on [Judgment Day], at that time, even the stones and the trees will speak, with or without words, and say: “Oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there’s a Jew behind me, come and kill him.” They will point to the Jews. It says “servant of Allah,” not “servant of desires,” “servant of women,” “servant of the bottle,” “servant of Marxism,” or “servant of liberalism”… It said servant of Allah.
There’s more sensitivity about Jews and wife-beating at MEMRI, if you can stand it. Bear it all in mind when Andrew Sullivan inevitably links to Islam Online as proof that, thanks to “Hadji Girl,” we’ve lost their hearts and minds.
Update: Just received an e-mail from a credible source who encourages Cpl. Belile’s defenders to keep up the pressure.
I just got off the phone with [a source in the Pentagon]. The Cpl. reported to me that they were all VERY appreciative of the support and that this was a “Brass” decision… He said they were already getting calls and that it was helping, but they needed to get a lot more to make a difference. It really is helping the Marines to know that they are not alone and that not everyone hates them… He said these calls were making everyone’s day.
I have emailed “The Sweater Kittens” and offered to assist them with any legal representation (should it be required) and highly suggest that the Milbloggers and others make this a STRONGLY CONTESTED issue with the USMC Pentagon bureaucrats for the next week or so. Evidently, according to what I’m being told, how this situation turns out will have far reaching implications within the USMC and with the Marines who are forward deployed. It seems they are discussing a possible new “PC Policy” now for the Marines.
This sucks and I’m willing to go to the mat to fight on this. If we don’t, we’re going to be overrun with a level of PC that will completely destroy the Constitution.
Here’s the contact info from today’s Vent:
Commandant of the Marine Corps
Phone: (703) 614-1034
Fax: (703) 614-2358
comrel@hqmc.usmc.mil
</H2>http://hotair.com/archives/the-blog/2006/06/15/hadji-girl-update-islam-online-makes-hay/
 
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