Could Germany have defeated Russia? - Page 4




 
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September 9th, 2017  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
The thing I have about the Japan/Russian scenarios is that few of them make any military sense from a Japanese point of view.

Lets ignore realities of previous Japanese/Russian skirmishes that ended in the Japanese getting their butts kicked and assume a Japanese assault on Russia was successful they would have multiple hundreds of kilometres of frozen tundra to get through just to capture anything useful, if you think the Russian Front was miserable from a German point of view I cant imagine how bad invading Siberia would have been from a Japanese perspective.

Now to jump back to some facts.

Of the 14 Eastern divisions transfered West between August and December 1941, two were under strength cavalry divisions, 3 were Tank/Mechanised divisions that had only been formed in April 1941, the rest were Rifle Divisions of which three arrived in August and September and were sent to 11th Army defending the southern approaches to Leningrad or 7th Army defending the far north against the Finns.
Only six rifle divisions arrived in October and only four of these went to any Army that could be even remotely linked to defending Moscow against Army Group Centre.

Over all their combat performance was regarded as "average".
The japs didn't need to attack Siberia to "fix" the Siberian forces. It's enough to have forces moving around on their side of the border. When the Russian realized the Japs wouldn't attack them there, they were able to move a huge number of divisions to the defense of Moscow.
September 9th, 2017  
marcus melky
 
I wish to jion foreign military
September 9th, 2017  
marcus melky
 
I love the military from when I was a kid we had a neighbour who was a military man so he inspired me .But in my country joining the military is through bribery and corruption .Just wish if any one could help me
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September 9th, 2017  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus melky
I wish to jion foreign military
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus melky
I love the military from when I was a kid we had a neighbour who was a military man so he inspired me .But in my country joining the military is through bribery and corruption .Just wish if any one could help me
Wrong section...
September 9th, 2017  
lljadw
 
From a defensive point of view the USSR was invincible in 1941 .
September 10th, 2017  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
The japs didn't need to attack Siberia to "fix" the Siberian forces. It's enough to have forces moving around on their side of the border. When the Russian realized the Japs wouldn't attack them there, they were able to move a huge number of divisions to the defense of Moscow.
I understand that however I would like to point out that the "huge" number of divisions was in fact a total of 14 divisions, mostly newly formed of which only 4 were anywhere near Moscow to take part in its defense.

The notion of Siberian divisions arriving to defend Moscow in the nick of time is just a myth albeit an enduring one.

As far as the war in the East goes we would be better off discussing the Lodzen decision than the influence of the "Siberian" divisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
This thread has turned into a "what if" speculations. I like it when there is not really a right or wrong answer to any of the pondering that occur in threads like this. I am glad to see the forum is somewhat waking up.
I agree, I think I probably should have given it a better title, would be nice to encourage a few others to take part though.
September 10th, 2017  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I understand that however I would like to point out that the "huge" number of divisions was in fact a total of 14 divisions, mostly newly formed of which only 4 were anywhere near Moscow to take part in its defense.

The notion of Siberian divisions arriving to defend Moscow in the nick of time is just a myth albeit an enduring one.

As far as the war in the East goes we would be better off discussing the Lodzen decision than the influence of the "Siberian" divisions.



I agree, I think I probably should have given it a better title, would be nice to encourage a few others to take part though.
We have new members, I hope they take part in the discussions. George mentioned Franco and I have a pondering about what if Spain had intervened on the Axis side. The British had most likely lost Gibraltar and that have changed things in the Mediterranean.
September 10th, 2017  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
We have new members, I hope they take part in the discussions. George mentioned Franco and I have a pondering about what if Spain had intervened on the Axis side. The British had most likely lost Gibraltar and that have changed things in the Mediterranean.
The question is what would control of the Mediterranean done for the Axis?

It would have made things slightly more difficult shipping materials from India to the UK but outside of that it would have had little affect however for the Germans it would have opened up yet another neverending frontline with the Allies falling back to massive supply bases in both India and South Africa.

I am inclined to agree with George that the best thing Italy could have done was emulate Franco and allow those who wanted to fight with Germany to do so but otherwise stay out of the war.
September 10th, 2017  
lljadw
 
For Germany the participation of Spain/Turkey,etc on the war would have been a disaster .
September 11th, 2017  
MontyB
 
 
I think I agree, as it was Spain provided a lot of tacit support without being at risk of attack.

Turkey's involvement could have been interesting had they entered in early 1942 or in support of Case Blue but outside that I really don't think Turkey could have helped the Axis cause significantly.
 


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