The controversial creation of israel

R

radarsonar

Active member
Hi all,

The Israel Palestine problem has been going on for many years now.
This leads to the question:

Is the creation of Israel in Palestine Territory a clear case of failure of planning and willingness to share on the part of UK/US?

Why was UK/US unwilling to allocate a part of their land (within UK/US borders or one of their colonies in Africa/India instead of the land of Palestine which is a contentious religious site) for the creation of Israel. It would have been a grand goodwill gesture from the superpowers. But self interests over common good stopped them from doing it?

Please let me know your thoughts.
 
The creation of Israel was a failure on the part of Britain, much similar to their failures at dividing India and East/West Pakistan. They didn't fully comprehend the situation and just drew some lines on a map. I feel that the Zionist movement was going to end with a large population of Jews in Palestine, however the British plan to immediately give full control of the new country to the Immigrants was a very poor decision. It could not have been created anywhere else, however, if it was going to be done they at least chose the desired location.
 
The Other Guy said:
The creation of Israel was a failure on the part of Britain, much similar to their failures at dividing India and East/West Pakistan. They didn't fully comprehend the situation and just drew some lines on a map. I feel that the Zionist movement was going to end with a large population of Jews in Palestine, however the British plan to immediately give full control of the new country to the Immigrants was a very poor decision. It could not have been created anywhere else, however, if it was going to be done they at least chose the desired location.
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I think it would be more accurate to say that there was no need for the Jewish people to have a State of their own anyway.

They had lived spread all over the world, (Largely in Europe) for 1200 years, they had absolutely no entitlement to go back and just throw the Palestinians off the land that they had occupied for over a thousand years, just as I have no right to go and move onto the farm(s) and houses that were owned by my ancestors in Northern England 200 years ago.
 
One can understand that the Jews needed a separate state, considering the complete annihilation of jews in Europe (They could no longer trust alien countries to protect their population).

SO, they were totally justified in securing a sovereign state for themselves, but why did the superpowers not get this carved out from within UK/US borders or India/Africa (Their colonies).

That's the core of the discussion would like to highlight to members in this forum. Please let us know your thoughts.
 
radarsonar said:
One can understand that the Jews needed a separate state, considering the complete annihilation of jews in Europe (They could no longer trust alien countries to protect their population).
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What rubbish, the Germans were defeated, and very apologetic. By and large, they still are to this day. In fact modern day Germans who had no part in WWII or the holocaust are suffering an unfair cultural cringe left over from two generations ago. I may be wrong but I think that Germany would still have some of the strongest laws against anti Semitism anywhere in the world, and as far as I know they are policed very actively.

SO, they were totally justified in securing a sovereign state for themselves, but why did the superpowers not get this carved out from within UK/US borders or India/Africa (Their colonies).

That's the core of the discussion would like to highlight to members in this forum. Please let us know your thoughts.
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If this was the case, why should any of these Allied countries or their colonies be expected to give their countries away. If any country fell into this category it should have been Germany, who bought about the Mass murder of the Jewish population of Europe.

Anyway, can you explain why one religion in the world should be granted a country of thir own. It's bad enough with ethnic tensions between countries let alone religious differences. You only have to look at the religious problems with India and Pakistan to see what happens when countries are divided on religious lines.

They are my thoughts on the matter.
 
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1. I agree with your point that if at all any country had to give living space for Jews, it should be 'carved out of Germany' - But then why didn't UK/US do it? (Sizable portions of Germany were theirs after WW2 and they could have established a separate Jewish state by carving it out of 'Allied occupied Germany' instead of going to a religious contentious site of Palestine)

2. Regarding your second question 'why should a country be created based on religion'
Answer: To avoid mass genocide of the minorities by the majorities (In India, 'Minority - Muslims' have equal rights in all spheres of society as per the written law, but are still vulnerable due to radical 'Majority - Hindu' parties which are similar to Nazis). But luckily such radical parties are rejected by the people.

So, its absolutely natural for the Jews to have wanted a separate state (They couldn't afford risking their survival solely on the 'changed European mindset / anti-semitic reforms'), they wanted to be self dependent and ensure their safety.
 
Out of the ashes came the State of Israel as a testament to a people who throughout the centuries have been murdered for no reason other than hate-anti semitism is a 2000 year history of hate. I think that both the anti-semitic europeans and the japanese should suffer for a thousand centuries for what they did during the war. Let them scrounge around in caves or catch cockroaches for a living. How can one ever trust societies that have persistently attempted to exterminated a people? What's the choice, continue to "hang around" in those countries that hate the Judaic people?

Einstein said it best by defining insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I won't give europe a penny of my tourist dollars. I don't need to go there and have them make money by turning the concentration camps into museums. In the end those countries are again profiting from the horror they inflicted on the Judaic people.


Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism It's as simple as that. All the bells and whistles won't distract from the ulterior motive why some will engage in a pseudo-intellectual discussion about Israel's right to exist. If you really want to see anti-semites crawl out of the woodwork discuss the possibility that Columbus was Jewish. That really makes them want to rip there teeth out. The idea that the Americas were founded by a Judaic being the same year they were all kicked out of Spain.

Actually, there were two holocausts during the war. One Judaic and one Chinese. We must always remember the victims. How can one with a clear conscious financially reward those cultures with buying a german or japanese car (regardless of how "good" the product is peceived). Buying those products trivializes the victims lives as if they as people didn't matter much. I've seen so called orthodox drive around in those vehicles (including Israelis) and I am so ashamed to see that they forgive and forget so easily.

So now it okay to "buddy up" (all is forgiven) by financially rewarding cultures who collectively are responsible for the unimaginable. I will always remember the victims as well as the brave patisans who fought back. If it wasn't for Israel, the USA would have little power in that part of the world. Strategically, Israel is our most important ally. Who do you think teaches our pilots the specialzied tactics they need to fight all those jerkwater puppet states surrounding Israel? Do you think the USAF can orchestrate an Operation Thunderbolt so successfully? Or how about the iraqi reactor raid?

ISRAELI AIR FORCE ----KEEPING THE SKYS SAFE

There is no controversy regarding Israel as a nation. Legitamizing this as a viable debate is merely a disguise for anti-semitism.
 
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goodoldrebel said:
Out of the ashes came the State of Israel as a testament to a people who throughout the centuries have been murdered for no reason other than hate-anti semitism is a 2000 year history of hate. I think that both the anti-semitic europeans and the japanese should suffer for a thousand centuries for what they did during the war. Let them scrounge around in caves or catch cockroaches for a living. How can one ever trust societies that have persistently attempted to exterminated a people? What's the choice, continue to "hang around" in those countries that hate the Judaic people?

Einstein said it best by defining insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I won't give europe a penny of my tourist dollars. I don't need to go there and have them make money by turning the concentration camps into museums. In the end those countries are again profiting from the horror they inflicted on the Judaic people.


Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism It's as simple as that. All the bells and whistles won't distract from the ulterior motive why some will engage in a pseudo-intellectual discussion about Israel's right to exist. If you really want to see anti-semites crawl out of the woodwork discuss the possibility that Columbus was Jewish. That really makes them want to rip there teeth out. The idea that the Americas were founded by a Judaic being the same year they were all kicked out of Spain.

Actually, there were two holocausts during the war. One Judaic and one Chinese. We must always remember the victims. How can one with a clear conscious financially reward those cultures with buying a german or japanese car (regardless of how "good" the product is peceived). Buying those products trivializes the victims lives as if they as people didn't matter much. I've seen so called orthodox drive around in those vehicles (including Israelis) and I am so ashamed to see that they forgive and forget so easily.

So now it okay to "buddy up" (all is forgiven) by financially rewarding cultures who collectively are responsible for the unimaginable. I will always remember the victims as well as the brave patisans who fought back. If it wasn't for Israel, the USA would have little power in that part of the world. Strategically, Israel is our most important ally. Who do you think teaches our pilots the specialzied tactics they need to fight all those jerkwater puppet states surrounding Israel? Do you think the USAF can orchestrate an Operation Thunderbolt so successfully? Or how about the iraqi reactor raid?

ISRAELI AIR FORCE ----KEEPING THE SKYS SAFE

There is no controversy regarding Israel as a nation. Legitamizing this as a viable debate is merely a disguise for anti-semitism.
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I can't believe my eyes ,thus no visit to Britain (maybe you are forgetting the Irish dying in 1845 ),nor in Turkey (the Armenians ),not to Belgium (the Congo ),of course not to Rusia,nor Spain etc ..,and who was selling oil and raw materials to Japan while it was busy with the rape of Nanking ?:shock: (maybe an idea for some money greedy US lawyer -are there other -to sue the US ),thus no Ford nor GM ?
While it is true that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and America's only friend (US are also Israel's only friend ),if US will have to choose between Israel and the interests of the US,they will of course let down Israel (remember Eisenhower in 1956 )
 
goodoldrebel said:
There is no controversy regarding Israel as a nation. Legitamizing this as a viable debate is merely a disguise for anti-semitism.
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The Palestinians have every right to resist by any means that they can. What would you do, if Mexico was to donate all of the better parts of the USA to the starving Ethiopians leaving the present owners the deserts and un-productive land, and also to treat them as second class citizens?

Why do Jews and their supporters allways fall back on the old and worn out anti semitism. It has been demonstrated a number of times that this term is a complete misnomer, as the Palestinian people are also Semites.

There are very few true Anti Semites in the world, but there are millions who despise Israel for it's treatment of those people who are the rightful owners of the land Israel occupies.

No!, it's NOT anti semitism, it's merely a backlash by the civilised world against what the Zionists for occupying the land of others and stealingfrom, beating, stoning and killing those who resist.

I would seriously recommend that you read all of the threads on this forum that have been devoted to this subject before you make fool of yourself

As for your initial comment regarding Israel's legitimacy, can you tell me one other religious group in the world who have been given their own country, what's more they were given a land that had belonged to another people for over 1200 years. A land that did not even belong to those who gave it away.

Anyway, don't kid yourself, Israel has absolutely no respect for the US whatsoever, just remember Israels reaction to the US request that they stop stealing Palestinian Land for "Settlements" They as muchas told you to mind your own business.

If it were not for the billions of dollars that the US grants to Israel, they would not even speak to you. It is merely a parasitic relationship.
 
At last the "clouds part to show the true sky". Your anti-semitic ranting means nothing because the IAF is the best and Israel will exist till the end of time. Israel is the most beautiful place on the planet and I will visit King David's Tomb and travel to Ein Gedi and Elat every year knowing that the IAF is keeping the skies safe.

Never again will the Judaic people be dependent on the whims of the gentiles. 2000 years of pogroms. I'm so glad I was born a Jew. Yes, the Judaic being today fights back and fights better than his enemies because intellect is the ultimate weapon.

As a closing thought, the best story is still the original story of Moses. All the other copyjob nonsense is just nonsense based on envy. Isn't this the source of anti-semitism--envy; envy for the original faith.

schwer tsoo zine a Yid
 
I think you should let go of yourself before you go blind.

If America were to stop pouring aid into Israel, the Israelis would be just another voice in the wilderness,.... with their @rse on fire.

PS I am of Jewish descent also and quite proud of it, the difference between you and I being that I don't let it affect my judgement or morals. You use the oldest excuse in the book, as soon a s anyone looks sideways at you you scream anti Semitism like a 3 year old in the play pen whose just lost his favourite toy. The world is sick of it and sick of Israels murder and mayhem constantly annoying others.

goodoldrebel said:
because intellect is the ultimate weapon.
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And where were you then when all this was happening, Enlighten all of us mere mortals, what exactly was your mind blowing contribution to this world?

I notice that you never answered my question in my last post about fighting for your country. Or are you one of these one eyed wankers who merely lives in America but puts Israel first.
 
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Your ethnicentric Judaic background must be very limited or your just an apostate. You probably would have made a nice kapo during the war. Anyway, I served my country as did many other Judaic beings in the history of America. I was honorably discharged. I have a DD214. That's all you need to know. I don't think you would last 5 minutes in the military especially at OCS. Your knowledge of the military comes exclusively from -----------tv.

I'm surprised because I mostly have such positive interactions with Australians who I consider as the "other Americans". You must be one of those from an interfaith relationship and a gentile mother but most probably your Judaic connection is a more distant connection. While I would still consider you born Jewish, you probably have lived a non-Judaic life and resent others who stand up for who they are. You've been inebriated in the outback too long.

I would venture that you have also never been to Israel. If I made Aleyah, then I would surely want to serve in any capacity that Israel needed. Personally, there are a number of Americans (former service) driving tanks into gaza etc. to neutralize the insane terrorists.

Let call it like it is. The displaced jordanians can go back but jordan doesn't want them and who is jordan? Apply you nonsense logic to jordan and should it have the right to exist?
 
Of course I have never been to Israel, I am a proud Australian who knows where my allegiances lie. I volunteered to serve my country at 15 years of age and was in active service before I was 18, I too got an honourable discharge, it's not very hard to do.

How breeding comes into the argument I don't know, but your reasoning smacks of the Nazi policies of "racial purity" something any Jew with an ounce of brain should abhor.

So unless you can bring something new to this debate,.....

You still haven't answered my question.
senojekips said:
What would you do, if Mexico was to donate all of the better parts of the USA to the starving Ethiopians leaving the present owners the deserts and un-productive land, and also to treat them as second class citizens?
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senojekips said:
As for your initial comment regarding Israel's legitimacy, can you tell me one other religious group in the world who have been given their own country, what's more they were given a land that had belonged to another people for over 1200 years. A land that did not even belong to those who gave it away.
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I thought that was what it was,...????

Have I missed something here?

I thought that in the bottom right corner it said "Made in China", but on closer inspection it says, "Best Irish Linen".

I wonder if the Baptist's have dish towels too? We Atheists should definitely get one up, and make a few dollars (Guaranteed 100% Lint Free).

My Missus has one with a doggies head in the middle, I never use that side to dry the dishes as i think that the RSPCA might object.
 
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Now, its nothing but a dumbing down dialogue and so pathetically lame.
Having a dialogue with those narrow in scope and limited life experience is like one hand clapping. Do you think you can bait me so easily?

The mindlessness that I'm reading here sounds like it came from someone who just fell off a cabbage truck. All this stuff is the same junk you here from the radical muslims. What's different? Go to their web sites and verbatem you will see your words.

Why not wrap a towl around your head while you at it? Is this the level of conversation you want? ---pre adolescent nonsense
 
goodoldrebel said:
---pre adolescent nonsense
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The replies were in keeping with the childishness of your posts.

Plus I think I can quite safely say that in 38 years as both a Serviceman and a Merchant Seaman and Officer, I have seen a lot more of the world than you have,... or ever will.
goodoldrebel said:
Your ethnicentric Judaic background must be very limited or your just an apostate. You probably would have made a nice kapo during the war.
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Source:http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/kapos.html

I see nothing differentiating apostates or "limited" Jews here.

Being an amateur genealogist of 30 years, and a noted contributor to "The Family Tree of the Jewish People" http://www.jewishgen.org/gedcom/ I can quite confidently say that you have absolutely no idea of your own ancestry pre 1650, as Jews prior to that time used no "Family names" nor were accurate records of BDM kept, in fact most Jews never adopted Surnames until after 1787 when it was decreed within the Austrian Empire, other countries followed soon thereafter, your misplaced racial/religious "pride" has no foundation whatsoever.

There's a good chance you may well be a "mongrel breed" yourself.

And you still can't answer my questions.
 
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Just convoluted dribble. Is this all you muster? Actually, this is good for a laugh. You must have such a small life. What is it anyway? angry when you see Judaism practiced down under? Is that what your issue is? Anyway, your no reflection of the average citizen there.

A relative of mine is a physicist down under and he finds little of your mentality there. Your just out there "where the buses don't run". You might want to consider a move to the pandhandle of Idaho. I think you would fit in quite well there. Oh and don't forget to shave your head first.
 
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