Originally Posted by TheManFromOz

I don't know enough to propose an entire solution.

However having said that, their are some necessary things, from the Israeli POV, for peace.

1. Hamas must accept that Israel exists, and will continue, and has the right to exist.

2. Hamas must disarm most of it's 'security forces'

3. Fatah (the PA) needs to stop shitting in it's own backyard, and treat it's people properly, which will decrease crime and terrorism. (Recently information came to light saying that most Fatah people weren't paid, and that Fatah is having trouble keeping services such as water and electricity running due to rampant corruption.)

4. Syria and Iran need to stop supplying the various terrorist groups.

5. People from both sides need to stop illegal construction. (Of which most actually tends to be palestinian, regardless of what people say)

Now for possibilities

1. The two-state solution, however fatah and hamas cannot be allowed a military, based on their past record.
I like this one as it means that they are no longer Israels problem and we can be free of them, close the borders, and have no more problems. It actually looks like we are heading this way, as the PA seems to be picking up more administrative and regulatory functions, however see point three on the other list.

2. keep thing more or less as they are, with the PA and hamas running the west bank and gaza.
This is not really a solution, just a put off to a later date.

3. Ask the PA if they would like to become part of Israel with full citizenship.
Probably not gonna happen due to the politics of numbers, but it is an interesting option, as it would give Israeli employers large numbers of workers, and make israel stronger on the inernational market.

Now for a little rant.

For all of you guys calling for a halt to construction, let me ask you this: who do you think most of the construction laborers are, the one ones that get laid off first when the builders have no more contracts, and need the money most?

Now you can see why there will never be a peace deal and I suspect this is the way Israel wants it and before you accuse me of being biased (I will admit that I am biased in this argument) let me ask you a question:

If the roles were reversed would accept those terms?

As far as people calling for a halt to construction goes I think you will find that most people don't care what Israel builds as long as they stop using shady methods of dispossessing the existing owners.

Originally Posted by TheManFromOz

When you quote an unbiased source, we'll talk.

You can be biased, it's no skin off my nose, but when a inernational NGO shows an obvious bias, I ignore them.

In other words you will treat as biased every source that doesnt fit your limited view of the world as a very basic form of defence against arguments, whats the point of even talking to you if you employ suck redneck methods in a dialogue then?

Originally Posted by TheManFromOz

When you quote an unbiased source, we'll talk.

You can be biased, it's no skin off my nose, but when a inernational NGO shows an obvious bias, I ignore them.

I suppose you would only agree that Israeli sources are unbiased?

How about the UN, they are representative of most of the free worlds opinion?

Tell the truth, you don't want an unbiased opinion,... you only want an opinion that is biased your way.

You may be "The man from Oz", but you'll never make an "Australian" as you have no idea of the Australian concept of honesty and "a fair go".

The UN is a collection of idiots. This is the organization that had Libya chairing the Human Rights board, and similar things happening all the time.

As for not making an australian, I give everyone a fair go, I hate everybody equally until I feel that whoever-it-is ain't an arsehole, they can be arab, persian, african, hungarian, I don't give a crap, until I see him/her being worth knowing.

As for bias, I really prefer organizations the way I like my news, factual without any opinion, thus allowing the reader to form his/her own opinion.

Originally Posted by TheManFromOz

The UN is a collection of idiots. This is the organization that had Libya chairing the Human Rights board, and similar things happening all the time.

Yeah,.... you already indicated that they don't agree with your Neo Nazi policies. I guess thats a good reason to write them off. Anyway that having been said, they are still representative of world opinion, and they certainly have more pull than you do.

As for not making an australian, I give everyone a fair go, I hate everybody equally until I feel that whoever-it-is ain't an arsehole, they can be arab, persian, african, hungarian, I don't give a crap, until I see him/her being worth knowing.

Crap! However even if it were true I'd say no one would be too worried about not being on your Christmas card list which would have to be the world's shortest.

As for bias, I really prefer organizations the way I like my news, factual without any opinion, thus allowing the reader to form his/her own opinion.

Well you dipped out bigtime there didn't you. You support a terrorist state that murders the civilians that won't just give up their land to their oppressors. Naaahhh, you flatter yourself, you haven't got an un biased nor "fair" bone in your body.

You trot out the standard Zionist clap trap.

I notice that you have steered well clear of MontyB's question regarding what you would do if the conditions were reversed.

I don't send out christmas cards, I never said I was unbiased, and from my POV it ain't claptrap.

I am not gonna change your mind, your not gonna change my mind, so I am not gonna post in threads about Israel anymore. I can admire your stubbornness however.

Best of luck with your projects,
TMFO

Honesty to oneself and those about them is an innate trait of character, it is virtually impossible to "learn". I never expected to be able to change your mind, however I do like showing your selfish lies and deceit to be just that.

You still haven't attempted to answer as to whether you would accept the conditions that Israel is offering to the Palestinians if the roles were reversed.

Originally Posted by senojekips

I notice that you have steered well clear of MontyB's question regarding what you would do if the conditions were reversed.

I have already accepted that the answer was going to be no, who in their right mind would accept a "state" on the most worthless land in the region with no fixed borders which was not allowed defend itself especially when you are being touted as a source of labour, reminds me of Warsaw Ghetto from a few decades ago really.

Originally Posted by TheManFromOz

I don't send out christmas cards, I never said I was unbiased, and from my POV it ain't claptrap.

I am not gonna change your mind, your not gonna change my mind, so I am not gonna post in threads about Israel anymore. I can admire your stubbornness however.

Best of luck with your projects,
TMFO

Then why get involved in a topic if you have no intention of changing your views or the people you are debating with?

I just love these people who don't have a single shred of supporting evidence for their views other than, "Their opinion" which they attempt to push down the throats of others.

Here's what a Dr. Hajo Meyer, who has been in Auschwitz says regarding the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis and present day Jewish treatment of the Palestinian people:

Dr. Hajo Meyer, Auschwitz Survivor

Clearly he is anti-semitic or perhaps he understand history better than others.