Constitutional Or Not

[Missileer]

Yesterday, Nov 6, was state and local election day here in Texas. One city passed an ordinance outlawing "swingers clubs" in the city limits. The reason was because a neighborhood in the city was protesting meetings of a swingers club in the home of a couple who invited couples of like mind to attend partener swapping parties at the home. There were no criminal activities and the place was not a private club requiring a license. There were no charges for admission but donations were allowed to cover expenses for the homeowners. Now, here is the question, is this a matter to criminalize? Choose an answer.

 

[Team Infidel]

there was a town in oklahoma that outlawed topless clubs within the city limits, but had fully nude clubs on the city border.

depends on the local government. you will have two sides with valid constitutional points on both sides. it is a matter of interpretation

 

[Missileer]

I meant to make this into a poll at the last minute so I added a poll above.

 

[mmarsh]

The fact that this was being done at the home of a private residence and that no other criminal activity was going on at the time, sounds like a very clear violation of a persons right to both freedom and privacy.

Here is why:

In 2003, Lawrence vs Texas the USSC ruled that all sodomy laws amongst consenting adults were unconstitutional (sodomy during the course of a rape is still illegal). Its pretty much the same sort of case.

A government cannot regulate the sexual activities of consenting private citizens within their own homes provided that no other crime is being committed.

It seems pretty open and shut, at least in my opinion.

 

[Del Boy]

"In 2003, Lawrence vs Texas the USSC ruled that all sodomy laws amongst consenting adults were unconstitutional ."


So is sodomy compulsory yet? Outside of State Pen, I mean.

And weren't the people in that house contributing to global warming, a green offence?

 

[The Other Guy]

the first three.

 

[major liability]

The legislators are just jealous they're not getting in on the action.

 

[Missileer]

The Libertarian in me says that the city can't make ordinances that are invasive to the right to privacy. But, the conservative part says that even though grownups have the right to practice adultry in their own homes, the neighborhood kids should not be exposed to such behavior by their elders who are supposed to set an example of morality. I had to agree with no. two, with some hesitancy.

 

[pixiedustboo]

I choose the last, but I chose it for personal reasons, not fully, "constitutional" reasons. (Sorry my heart and head have to work together). I do think that neighborhoods should be able to have a say in what they do not want right in the middle of their surroundings.

People need to take other's into consideration before attacking things, or setting up a more...adult businesses (or swinger homes) in the middle of a family and child orientated area.

Sorry, I wouldn't want my 3 year old waking me up in the middle of the night with, "mommy the neighbor lady is screaming."

 

[03USMC]

Can't force your values on someone else. So IMO the puritanical nieghbors need to get a grip and realize that. No laws were broken, no ordinance needed.

 

[mmarsh]

The Libertarian in me says that the city can't make ordinances that are invasive to the right to privacy. But, the conservative part says that even though grownups have the right to practice adultry in their own homes, the neighborhood kids should not be exposed to such behavior by their elders who are supposed to set an example of morality. I had to agree with no. two, with some hesitancy.

------------------------------------------------------------
Concerning the conservative aspect.

But children aren't exposed. If the adults were doing this out in the open or were actively advertising their activities in neon lights then I might agree. All you see at a Swingers House are people coming in and going out, in fact you couldn't even tell the difference if they were swingers or people that give lots of dinner parties.

Incidentally, Swingers stay very discreet as they are anxious to preserve their own privacy. Its almost always "by invitation only" and after a selective screening process. If they do advertise (and often its strictly word-of-mouth) its almost always in media specifically catered for that sort of thing. Swinging isn't like prostitution thats live and in your face. Swingers are even more anxious to keep their activities private than society is.

I suspect this ordinance has more to do about imposing morality than it does of "protecting children". The excuse of "protecting children" has become a clever disguise for imposing a moral code on others.

One other thing. Sex is far less taboo in other western countries than it is in the USA. I would really which people would stop getting so worked up about such a perfectly natural activity. I am not saying to allow kids into peep shows, but I mean most kids watch the Discovery Channel don't they? Who cares is Janet Jackson shows abit of breast (for a split second) during a show? -This whole 'morality' business has gotten way out of hand.

 

[Del Boy]

Sorry guys - couldn't agree less.
Lack of morality is a symptom of decadence, the scourge of any society.


*

 

[major liability]

That maybe true Del Boy, but trying to impose morality through legislation can't undo history and turn things back to the way they were when we were less decadent. This is like putting a band-aid on a broken bone.

 

[SilknLeather]

I am appalled that such legislation was actually passed. While I find it a complete outrage, I do not think that the swinging is actually going on in the front yard during the day while the children are playing outside, or even with the curtains open.

I feel it is a total violation of a person's pursuit of happiness whether or not I agree. I would not want my neighbors to try to tell me how to live, as long as I was keeping to myself. Privacy is key here, maybe the people should not have let their neighbors know what was going on.

So if my neighbor is terrified of clowns and I have a huge clown party for my daughter and have the clown parade around the front yard, that would be just a bad. IMHO

My best friend from high school is terrified to death of clowns and would have nightmares if she was my neighbor and observed this. Everyone has the right to live how they want to in their home as long as no laws are being committed. It is better for people to get high off of sex than drinking and drugs.

 

[Del Boy]

That maybe true Del Boy, but trying to impose morality through legislation can't undo history and turn things back to the way they were when we were less decadent. This is like putting a band-aid on a broken bone.

I'm not disagreeing with you there, Major, 'cos i was not espousing the cause of legislation or religious imposition at this stage. I was simply stating my position regarding a world with or without morality. Count it as my starting point for any later discussion which may or may not arise. I was not on my soap-box, just presenting my opinion for what it is worth.