Who commit the Worst War Crime of ALL - Page 7




 
--
 
February 2nd, 2006  
Damien435
 
 
Supposedly we lost a cat that way.
February 2nd, 2006  
Kevin
 
 
I'll say Nazi-Germany, Irag under Saddam, and Soviet Russia.
February 27th, 2006  
sven hassell
 
 
This is a little off topic,its not the worst war crime and i'm going to upset a lot of people but I think its still a war crime.
Camp X-ray
If these are considered soldiers then treat them as P.O.W.s
If they are terrorists they should be tried in the country they commited their crimes as criminals and receive the appropriate sentences that that country dictates for terrorists.
My own personal feelings is shoot them all but that is irrelevent.
Laws are there for a reson and you cant change the rules to suit yourself no matter how evil these people are.
--
February 27th, 2006  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sven hassell
This is a little off topic,its not the worst war crime and i'm going to upset a lot of people but I think its still a war crime.
Camp X-ray
If these are considered soldiers then treat them as P.O.W.s
If they are terrorists they should be tried in the country they commited their crimes as criminals and receive the appropriate sentences that that country dictates for terrorists.
My own personal feelings is shoot them all but that is irrelevent.
Laws are there for a reson and you cant change the rules to suit yourself no matter how evil these people are.
They are enemy combatants, not POWs and not common criminals.
February 28th, 2006  
sven hassell
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
They are enemy combatants, not POWs and not common criminals.
That is just creating a term to justify what is being done.
They are soldiers or civilians,you cant say because of the need to do what the U.S. is doing (dont think I have any sympathy for them) then there is something in between. Were the I.R.A.,E.T.A. ,R.A.F. enemy combatants?
Some inmates of X-ray have never been in combat or theatres of conflict(but are obviously guilty of terrorist activities) so how does that work?
I fully support the U.S. in its recent conflicts but by not adhering to the principles it stands for it makes a mockery of itself and its allies.
February 28th, 2006  
Forrest_Gump
 
From the 3rd Geneva Convention:

Art. 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[ (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

And from the 4th Geneva Convention:

Art. 64. The penal laws of the occupied territory shall remain in force, with the exception that they may be repealed or suspended by the Occupying Power in cases where they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the present Convention.
Subject to the latter consideration and to the necessity for ensuring the effective administration of justice, the tribunals of the occupied territory shall continue to function in respect of all offences covered by the said laws.
The Occupying Power may, however, subject the population of the occupied territory to provisions which are essential to enable the Occupying Power to fulfil its obligations under the present Convention, to maintain the orderly government of the territory, and to ensure the security of the Occupying Power, of the members and property of the occupying forces or administration, and likewise of the establishments and lines of communication used by them.

http://www.genevaconventions.org/

If one would take the time to read the actual conventions instead of listening to what mouthpeices with microphones say is in them, they would find that that AQ operatives and like persons have NOTHING coming to them in the way of protections. 60 years ago when a Werewolf was captured, they were shot. No trial, no trip to an internment camp. I am sick and tired of hearing about how bad off and mistreated these peices of garbage are when they are enjoying better living conditions and more "rights" than not only the men and women guarding them, but almost every other incarcerated person on earth. The only thing these people understand is death, and their ultimate honor is to die for Allah, so lets grant them their wish and move on.

And sven, nobody has lived at camp X-Ray for years.
February 28th, 2006  
sven hassell
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest_Gump
From the 3rd Geneva Convention:

Art. 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[ (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

And from the 4th Geneva Convention:

Art. 64. The penal laws of the occupied territory shall remain in force, with the exception that they may be repealed or suspended by the Occupying Power in cases where they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the present Convention.
Subject to the latter consideration and to the necessity for ensuring the effective administration of justice, the tribunals of the occupied territory shall continue to function in respect of all offences covered by the said laws.
The Occupying Power may, however, subject the population of the occupied territory to provisions which are essential to enable the Occupying Power to fulfil its obligations under the present Convention, to maintain the orderly government of the territory, and to ensure the security of the Occupying Power, of the members and property of the occupying forces or administration, and likewise of the establishments and lines of communication used by them.

http://www.genevaconventions.org/

If one would take the time to read the actual conventions instead of listening to what mouthpeices with microphones say is in them, they would find that that AQ operatives and like persons have NOTHING coming to them in the way of protections. 60 years ago when a Werewolf was captured, they were shot. No trial, no trip to an internment camp. I am sick and tired of hearing about how bad off and mistreated these peices of garbage are when they are enjoying better living conditions and more "rights" than not only the men and women guarding them, but almost every other incarcerated person on earth. The only thing these people understand is death, and their ultimate honor is to die for Allah, so lets grant them their wish and move on.

And sven, nobody has lived at camp X-Ray for years.
Yes x-ray shut some time ago but I think theres a replacement for it isnt
there?
Also please dont think i'm some kind of bleeding heart liberal.I would like nothing more than to see them all slotted but do you not think the U.S. is applying the convention as it sees fit?
I have lived my entire life under the shadow of Republican terrorism and when these 'enemy combatants' were caught they were treated as common criminals and not P.O.W.s
Now I'm confused?
March 2nd, 2006  
chinese-canadian
 
Japan is one, without a doubt,
11 million Chinese civlians died in WW2 directly due to Japanese invasion..
Japanese was so brutal that even animals in my grandpa's town runs away when they heard "ribenren lai la.." (japanese is coming)
March 4th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
After reading the posts here, I can only make one point: I suggest that people stop reading about Nazi or Japanese atrocities and start to think a little more broadly about the actions of other states. [How about the Sovs? Some people mention this point]

Before suggesting another avenue worthy of examination, I would like to qualify the list that I compiled below. (1) The list is totally incomplete and is intended as a rough guide. (2) I do not care about moral relativism or equivalence. What follows are numbers only. (3) Numbers hide why and how these people died. (4) The murder of one person is a crime. (5) I really only want to point out just how depraved Marxian socialism was. (5) The differences between war crimes/crimes against humanity sort of vanish. The communists for example waged war against the upper classes, Hitler against the Jews, etc. I do not want to debate this side of the argument because sweeping deathtoll lists contain both cases. Doppleganger is again correct in suggesting that we stop placing "regular" war casualties on the atrocities list. If that were the case, and people like attributing every death during WWII including the Pacific Theatre to Germany, then the Americans (1945-1996) would be in real trouble.

This post looks at the Soviet side of communism. There are others of course. Mao's forced collectivization program killed about 30 million people alone. The communist regimes in North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Eastern Europe killed millions more. The Communist Black Book offers the following breakdown:

Soviet Union: 20 million
China: 65 million
Vietnam: 1 million
North Korea: 1 million
Cambodia: 2 million
Eastern Europe: 1 million
Latin America: 150,000
Africa: 1,7 million
Afghanistan: 1.5 million
COMINTERN: 10,000

[Stephane Courtois, Das Schwarzbuch des Kommunismus (1997), p. 16]

---------------------------------
A SHORT AND INCOMPLETE LIST OF SOVIET ATROCITIES
---------------------------------

NOTE: The old argument that Stalin killed his own people, one that floats around and will not go away, holds no validity. Stalin was Georgian and not Russian. Russia is composed of hundreds of ethnic groups. The Soviet Union in any case "impacted" the demographic structures of Spain, Mongolia, Latvia, Hungary, Germany, etc.

NOTE: There is no agreed total number of deaths and the stats run between 10 and 50 million. The major problems here seem to be the lack of resources devoted to the study, the lack of proper documentation, and probably ideologically driven assessments.
[http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin]

A. GERMAN CIVILIANS & POWS KILLED:

German POWS Killed: "[A]t least one million German prisoners died [DURING the war] out of the 3,150,000 taken by the Red Army".
[S.P. MacKenzie, "The Treatment of Prisoners of War in World War II", p. 511.]

GERMAN CIVILIANS KILLED: This one is hard to say. Conventional assessments place the figure around 3 million.

GERMAN RAPE: "How many German women were raped? One can only guess, says The Telegraph, but it had to be a high proportion of at least 15 million women who either lived in the Soviet Union zone or were expelled from the eastern provinces. The scale of rape is suggested by the fact that about two million women had illegal abortions every year between 1945 and 1948". Conventional arguments suggest about 3 million women between 10 and 80 years of age.
[http://www.americanfreepress.net/Books/New_History_Tome_Exposes_Massi/new_history_tome_exposes_massi.html]

B. NON-GERMANS KILLED: (Some Examples)

STALIN'S PURGES: Counting immediately executed and those who died later in the Gulags (about 90%), "[t]his would give a total death toll for the MAIN Purge period of just under ten million people".
[Robert Conquest, The Great Terror: A Reassessment, pp. 485-88.]

ETHNIC CLEANSING: Hundreds of thousands of Volga Germans, Polish officers, Ukranian peasants (millions), etc.

A LAST NOTE: When we think of atrocities, we seem to think of "Schindler's List"-type material. That is, of Nazi freaks doing God knows what to a whole lot of people. [Dirlewanger's crazed boys did play soccer with human heads and that sort of thing] The Soviets, however, really "got medieval" during WWII. Here are a couple of examples that I found in the Robert Murphy (Political Advisor to OMGUS General Lucius D. Clay) State Department Files for the period 1945-1947:

1. German civilians were forced to swallow excrement until they suffocated. (Thirty Years War-style)
2. Babies were thrown into mud pits where they sank and died.
3. Girls aged 10 or so were gang-raped to death. Their fathers were forced to watch and then put out of their misery.
4. Civilians including babies were crucified--ie. nailed to barns or houses in Jesus-fashion.

Ollie Garchy
March 4th, 2006  
chinese-canadian
 
I doubt the number for Mao's atrocities is accurate, for several reasons:
1. the number included all kind of death, normal, or die in accident or wutever
2. back then, the records of population were a mess in China, lot of people didn't even exist on the list
3. Mao's craps were not war atrocities.

However, I still agree that Mao is a piece of Crap that delayed China's rise.