Yes: the story that the famine of 1932 in the Ukraine was hand-made is Ukrainian propaganda,besides the number of victims was much lower than is claimed .

The Holodomor,the famine of Bengalen and the Irish famine were not hand-made,they were caused by nature .

Already in 1900 were Russians the majority of the population in the big Ukrainian cities. Stalin did not send millions of Russians to the depopulated regions of the Ukraine,because there were not such regions .

Originally Posted by lljadw

Yes: the story that the famine of 1932 in the Ukraine was hand-made is Ukrainian propaganda,besides the number of victims was much lower than is claimed .

The Holodomor,the famine of Bengalen and the Irish famine were not hand-made,they were caused by nature .

Already in 1900 were Russians the majority of the population in the big Ukrainian cities. Stalin did not send millions of Russians to the depopulated regions of the Ukraine,because there were not such regions .

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhis...ide/stalin.htm

http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/center-s...rainian-famine

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/facts.html

No, it is truth the Stalin made Genocide in the Ukraine.

Your sources are using Conquest who is totally discredited and sources from Ukrainian emigrants which also are debunked .One should not use as source Ukrainian emigrants in Canada,neither Irish emigrants in the USA.

Besides,10 million victims in the Ukraine is impossible:in 1932,the population of the Ukraine was less than 30 million:if 10 million had died during the famine,the Ukrainians would have been extinct : no country can afford a loss of a third of its population .The Ukrainians did not extinct : 50 years late,they were 50 million .

Originally Posted by lljadw

Your sources are using Conquest who is totally discredited and sources from Ukrainian emigrants which also are debunked .One should not use as source Ukrainian emigrants in Canada,neither Irish emigrants in the USA.

Besides,10 million victims in the Ukraine is impossible:in 1932,the population of the Ukraine was less than 30 million:if 10 million had died during the famine,the Ukrainians would have been extinct : no country can afford a loss of a third of its population .The Ukrainians did not extinct : 50 years late,they were 50 million .

Provide with reliable sources which are supporting what you are saying

Mark Tauger(professor history at the university of West Virginia) wrote:

"Natural disaster and Human actions in the Soviet famine of 1931-1933" and his conclusion on P 45 was the following :


"I contend that an understanding of the Soviet famine of 1932-1933 must start from the background of chronic agricultural crises in the early Soviet years,the harvest failures of 1931 and 1932 and the interaction of environmental and human failures that caused them ."

Simplified : the Soviet regime did not cause the famine : there were famines before 1932 and after 1932.What one can reproach to the Soviet regime was a to late and insufficient response .

Originally Posted by lljadw

Mark Tauger(professor history at the university of West Virginia) wrote:

"Natural disaster and Human actions in the Soviet famine of 1931-1933" and his conclusion on P 45 was the following :


"I contend that an understanding of the Soviet famine of 1932-1933 must start from the background of chronic agricultural crises in the early Soviet years,the harvest failures of 1931 and 1932 and the interaction of environmental and human failures that caused them ."

Simplified : the Soviet regime did not cause the famine : there were famines before 1932 and after 1932.What one can reproach to the Soviet regime was a to late and insufficient response .

What the historian is saying; the Soviet government contributed to the famine, so he is actually confirming the failure of the response caused more fatalities among the Ukrainians.

What kind of *Natural Disaster* is he referring to?

Things as drought,heavy rains, late frost, heat

About the number of victims : in 1926 the Ukrainian population was 28.7 million,in 1939 31.8 million .Thus,a loss of 10 million is impossible ,because this would assume that the Ukrainian population was increasing from 1932 (30 million- 10 million = 20 million) to 31.8 million = 11.8 million ,in 7 years .

An increase of 1.7 million a year for a population of 20 million is impossible :this would mean a birth figure of 100 per thousand:comparison : a birth figure of 30 million for the US .

Originally Posted by lljadw

Things as drought,heavy rains, late frost, heat

All of them at the same time? Does the historian provide with which of them or are you guessing?

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

What the historian is saying; the Soviet government contributed to the famine, so he is actually confirming the failure of the response caused more fatalities among the Ukrainians.

The failure of the response caused more fatalities not only among the Ukrainians but also in the other republics ,because the famine was not limited to the Ukraine .

One can claim that the response was insufficient and to late,but the fact that there was a response is proving that that the Soviet regime did not create,neither cause the famine .


How much more fatalities were caused by the failure of response ? no one knows .Would a better response have resulted in less fatalities (and how much ?) ? No one knows,but,I am sceptical that there would have been less fatalities,because nature is stronger than mankind .