A Combatant's Oath of Allegiance - Page 2




 
--
 
January 15th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggrandwill
Hi International Military Forums,
I'm submitting this quote from a book that I'm composing; I believe it reflects the values of a soldier very accurately and might serve someone as a real Oath of Allegiance somewhere. If the quote blows, tell me; if it sucks, tell me, too. So here:

"I will not be killed, I will not surrender and I will not betray my brethren! For as long as I know how not to be killed, not to surrender and not to betray my brethren, I will not be killed, will not surrender and will not betray my brethren!"

Now this is a collaborative atmosphere, I would welcome any ideas on how to make this quote better are welcome. Now what I would add is the dry humor of the RKKA raboche-krestyanskaja Krasnaya Armija Oath of Allegiance, where humor in the Oath of Allegiance is an inherent characteristic of it, for the mystical purposes of Russian Army mysticism, but right away I'm seeing no outlets for adding anything funny to this quote.

I'm hoping you will find this quote worthy.

If there is one thing I learned about combat it is this...ANYONE can be killed. It doesn't matter how good you are, a stray bullet or piece of shrapnel can take the life out of you in an instant. Training helps...but sometimes there is simply nothing you can do.

I can also see a contradiction in the oath as well. Sometimes in order to not "betray" your brethren you need to be killed. Soldiers who charge into machine gun fire don't do it because they are trying to live. They do it because they are trying to save their brothers. I would venture to say that the oath should emphasize other attributes that are larger than the individual.

Everybody thinks they will be a hero in combat until they are in combat. You'd be surprised who ends up being heroes and who ends up hiding...I've found the ones who beat their chest the most are usually chickensh!t when it comes to bullets over their heads. The ones who are the quiet professionals usually surprise you. It's not an exact science...but these are things I've learned over time to look out for.
January 16th, 2013  
ggrandwill
 
 
brinktk,
most humble are my words of appreciation of your words. By valuing the lives of civilians, by sincerely committing your consciousness, the display of (what I think is) proper combatant morale that cannot be summarized in a quote, merely reflected in a quote...


>a stray bullet or piece of shrapnel can take the life out of you in an instant.
Honorable veteran brinktk, when thinking of this quote, I was considering adding an addendum where it says that if you understand the metaphysics of war and if you understand luck, then your Oath of Allegiance transforms into something ineffable. But that is just a hypothesis. Luck, faith, anybody can die, the "why are we fighting" question... Only with luck can one survive in a war and stay true to his Oath of Allegiance.

Make me a good quiet soldier that is not a coward and that lives quietly with his family please, International Military Forums... Quietly and without bragging, without pathos, just...


Quote:
I can also see a contradiction in the oath as well. Sometimes in order to not "betray" your brethren you need to be killed. Soldiers who charge into machine gun fire don't do it because they are trying to live. They do it because they are trying to save their brothers. I would venture to say that the oath should emphasize other attributes that are larger than the individual.
Now that is something worthy of being a permanent part of the Quotes collection, in my humble opinion. How can one comprehend war without this real insight? How can one go preach "Iesus Hominum Salvator" without the cross of self-sacrifice? "87. The Souls of those who quit the body violently are most pure".

I believe in paradise in this life. Some people believe that they will achieve paradise when they die for their faith. God's acts.

>Everybody thinks they will be a hero in combat until they are in combat.
Well, luckily, I think I'm an exception. I know I'll pee and **** myself, because while outside of combat, I know no fear.

How can I become a professional in losing my life to the enemy to save my brethren?
January 16th, 2013  
ggrandwill
 
 
Honor in combat? Honor exists between the brethren and among brethren. There is no Honor between me and the enemy. An honorable death is better than a dishonorable life. Pure theory, and my faith is shaking.
For I always thought that dying in bed surrounded by your children and grandchildren is the only honorable death.

Thus, on the IMF forum, the question of worth is asked.
--
January 16th, 2013  
ggrandwill
 
 
Now I'll be honest with you. I'm a Jesuit. A Soldier of God. Not Catholic, not Christian, not ordained. Here, I'm not lying at least. There is even no "Ad maiorem dei gloria" for me, just the faith in hominem salvator.
I want to see combat to write a book that will save the Infantry
January 16th, 2013  
ggrandwill
 
 
Because what I defend has worked hard
Because I fight for God
I am ready to die for my Family,
defending what I defend.



I don't know, I trust this forum. I trust brinktk and I trust every quiet military professional.
January 16th, 2013  
headwards
 
Dont you think theres too much religion in the world already?
January 16th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggrandwill
Honor in combat? Honor exists between the brethren and among brethren. There is no Honor between me and the enemy. An honorable death is better than a dishonorable life. Pure theory, and my faith is shaking.
For I always thought that dying in bed surrounded by your children and grandchildren is the only honorable death.

Thus, on the IMF forum, the question of worth is asked.

There is honor. Although war is a travesty in and of itself, and brings out the worst in humanity...it also can bring out the best in humanity. There can be honor between adversaries...if not honor, definitely respect.

Among brothers on the battlefield, the fallen are honored forever in the hearts and minds of the men that live on. Their sacrifice is never forgotton by those of us who witnessed it. How can I face my children on my death bed if I was derelict in my duty as a soldier which may have called for my sacrifice previously? I do what I must do on the battlefield to accomplish the mission and take care of my men. If that calls for my life then so be it. Only after fullfilling that obligation honorably can I return to my family with my honor intact. Otherwise I go to my death bed with shame and regret.
January 16th, 2013  
LeEnfield
 
 
Now have you ever served in the Forces and have you ever been combat, as only a person that has not would talk such drivel
January 17th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Now have you ever served in the Forces and have you ever been combat, as only a person that has not would talk such drivel
Who is this directed to?
January 17th, 2013  
ggrandwill
 
 
Dear Brinktk,

Quote:
There can be honor between adversaries...if not honor, definitely respect.
If we take the military ethics of most of our enemies, then I tend to say that the Schwartzsonne SS fascists definitely had no respect for the "untermenschen", and I will point to an historical precedent where it is clear that to expect Honor and Respect between adversaries is sometimes a mistake.

During the Battle of Maravar Pass where the 1st Company of the 334th Detached Spetsnaz Group got ambushed by the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen executed the defeated Soviet combatants with brutal torture including putting eyes out, cutting bellies open, burning alive and decapitation, according to the russian Wikipedia (may be psyops).

This is a hypothesis, but I believe there is no mercy in combat.
If I see a guy in a beret in my scope and he is the enemy, I won't think "well this is probably a respected honorable man", I'll shoot without thinking.

We can assume the enemy has respect for us and will treat our wounded disabled men if we lose. We can assume the enemy is dishonorable and will torture and torture and torture the survivors.

The correct policy, I believe humbly, would be to Never Surrender and to show no Mercy in combat. Now we are all Good men fighting for God, therefore we respect the Conventions...

In my wild, vivid fantasies, I, a civilian, think that in combat one forgets everything about honor and respect for the enemy. A combatant thinks too much of humaneness? He is then distracted from his obligations.

Humbly bowing before the opinion of the real men.
 


Similar Topics
NKVD SIGNED OATH OF LOYALTY DOCUMENT 1946
The Pledge of Allegiance
The Afghan Taliban detainees - Lawful or Unlawful Combatants
Pledge Of Allegiance
NAVY OATH OF ALLEGIANCE