Civilian Personal Defense Weapon




 
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October 3rd, 2006  
5.56X45mm
 
 

Topic: Civilian Personal Defense Weapon


Well, after the installation of the holster into by Ford Truck. I was looking into mounting a system for my AK-74 or AR-15. I wanted to be able to carry a long arm securely in place while driving. I could just simply place my rifle in a case and carry some loaded magazinez. But that's not my style. I like being all hi-tech (bubba rigging) and having order. I basicly wanted to have a mount much like in what my patrol car has for my rifle. But in the end I decided not to build a mount for the rifle/ Something else caught my attention.


Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine with a Smith & Wesson Model 5906



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine with a GLOCK 17



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine GLOCK 22 plus an after market 29rd magazine



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine GLOCK 22 plus an after market 29rd magazine


Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine

From what these photos show. The Kel-Tec SUB 2000 folds neatly in half and can be stored in a normal size brief case or laptop case. What I really like is the fact that since I always go into the storage area of my truck it looks like something normal. The Holster Rig in my center console is camouflaged by a baseball cap. Also, if I'm going into an office building or some such location no one will be the wiser. I believe it would work great for when I have go to my family's shop and such. I don't like leaving firearms unattended in my truck. Grabbing a rifle case in public is very obvious, grabbing a brief case is very common place.

The Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine also is chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum and .40 Smith & Wesson. Both are popular loads for pistols. While I wish i could do this with a rifle chambered firearm. Sadly no one makes a weapons that could fit the bill. Pistol caliber ammunition out of a 16 inch barrel is still suitable for what I want it for. A storable rifle that can be used in a SHTF situtation. Another plus is that the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 is designed to work off the following series of pistol magazines.

9x19mm Parabellum-
Smith & Wesson Model 59 Series
Beretta 92 Series
GLOCK 17
GLOCK 18
GLOCK 19
GLOCK 34
Sig Sauer P226

.40 Smith & Wesson-
Smith & Wesson Model 4006
Beretta 96 Series
GLOCK 22
GLOCK 23
GLOCK 35
Sig Sauer P226

I own a GLOCK 17, GLOCK 34, two GLOCK 19, and GLOCK 23. The first three listed GLOCKs that I own share the same magazine (Expect the GLOCK 19, it's magazines are too short to fit in the GLOCK 17 and GLOCK 34). All of my 9x19mm chambered GLOCKs that I own can use the GLOCK 18 33rd magazine to. I also own two Beretta 92FS pistols.

I would more than likely get the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine designed to use the GLOCK 19 magazines. So that means that I can use my other 9mm GLOCK magazine plus have some combat rifle load capacity (30rd or more) magazines for it too. Lastly it saves me money on the fact that I don't need to buy another ten magazines of another type to have a ready supply of magazines. I can use the magazines that I already own. That and be able to switch magazines between my carry and rifle incase I run out of ammunition in the GLOCK 33rd capacity magazines or if I hand the rifle or pistol over to a passenger in my truck and they run out of ammunition.


Price for the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine is around $200-$400 depending on where I go.



PS - 9x19mm Parabellum is dirt cheap which means I can take it out to the range and shoot many a 2 liter coke bottle without putting a hole in my wallet.
October 3rd, 2006  
major liability
 
 
Yeah, that's a neat little carbine. I saw a couple at the local gun shops. My friend got a Beretta Cx4 Storm chambered in .45ACP recently, and it's a pleasure to shoot. I'd probably go for one of those considering I don't need to conceal my weapon. Still, you've got a nice little "work-safe" package there.

5.56, since you're such a big GLOCK fan, I've been meaning to ask what you think about the GLOCK 20, my personal favorite. Lots of people say it's not a practical carry weapon due to the sheer power and penetration it offers, but these are plusses in my book. Up where I live, I'm a lot more likely to use it on a black bear, mountain lion, or deer than a human aggressor. I've read reports that due to the low barrel axis of the GLOCK the recoil is quite manageable. Can you confirm this?
October 3rd, 2006  
5.56X45mm
 
 
The GLOCK 20 is one hell of a pistol. I don't own any 10mm pistols because of the price of ammunition. That and the fact that for handgun hutning I use .41 Magnum and .44 Remington Magnum in my S&Ws.

Recoil in the GLOCK 20 isn't that bad. It's not light but it's not bad. Most of the commerical 10mm Auto isn't loaded to it's full ability. If you hand load you can get some really powerful stuff out of the 10mm Auto Cartirdge. Basicly it could equal the power of the famous .44 Remington Magnum.

The Size of the GLOCK 20 is a little big for my taste as a CCW gun but you could carry it concealed with the proper clothing. I've seen folks conceal carry a IMI Desert Eagle and not have the gun print through their clothing.

Now if someone made a 10mm Auto Carbine I'd buy it in a heart beat.
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October 3rd, 2006  
major liability
 
 
Thanks for the info - and remember, there's always the MP5/10. You can get one of those, right?
October 3rd, 2006  
5.56X45mm
 
 
If I had Fifity Thousand Dollars I could. I don't deal with Class 3 NFA Weapons for a reason. Only thing I might get that's a NFA is a MAC 11 and a suppressor. That's only about three thousand all together. But that's later on, like three years down the road later on.
October 3rd, 2006  
major liability
 
 
I thought police could buy whatever weapon they wanted direct from the manufacturer (e.g. HK) as long as their boss OK'ed it? You are a cop, right?
October 3rd, 2006  
5.56X45mm
 
 
That's if I have Department Letter Head and the police chief signs off on it. Sure, i don't have through jump through every hoop set up by the BAFTE but still. That means that I would have to destory or turn in into the PD when I retire or leave to another agency.

I still have to pay out of my own pocket. H&K hasn't made a MP5/10 in ten years. The FBI has most of them. There is a couple of gun smiths out there rechambering MP5s into 10mm. But those guys charge ten toushand dollars. Not worth to me to spend that much money on a firearm.

For me that Mac 11 fits the bill. It's an affordable full auto.
October 3rd, 2006  
major liability
 
 
Ah, I see... I'll have to let my friend know; one of the main reasons he was becoming a cop (aside from protecting his hood) was so he could get a cheap MG-42 mounted on his squad car.

Back on topic for a change - how does that Kel-Tec shoot? Accuracy-wise, can it beat the Hi-Point? Not much of a challenge, but the only other guns I have for comparison are the HP and the Cx4. I might consider getting one if it can be used with dependable accuracy out to 150m.
October 3rd, 2006  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Well, from what I have read about the Hi-point Carbines is that for their price they're okay. I don't like that they take their magazine design. I cannot use magazine from common pistols like GLOCK, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, or Sig Sauer.

The Berreta CX4 Storm is one sweet pistol caliber carbine. I like the fact that I can use my Beretta 92FS magazines and also the 20rd Beretta 93R magazines in both the rifle and pistol. Also, they're the only ones that make a .45 ACP caliber pistol carbine. But I don't want to pay $600-up for a pistol caliber carbine.

Ruger makes a well built pistol claiber carbine chambered in 9mm and .40S&W. It works off of their P series pistol magazines. I don't own a Ruger Semi-Auto pistol expect for their .22LRs.

Accuracy with the Kel-tec appears to be a good for what it is. A pistol caliber carbine.

What sells the Kel-Tec for me is the fact that it folds in half for easy storage.

The only other pistol caliber carbine that would ever grab my attention is a Marlin Camp 45 Carbine. It runs of 1911 magazines. Problem is they go for a huge chunk of change ($600-Up Used) and Marlin doesn't make them anymore.
October 9th, 2006  
sven hassell
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm
Well, after the installation of the holster into by Ford Truck. I was looking into mounting a system for my AK-74 or AR-15. I wanted to be able to carry a long arm securely in place while driving. I could just simply place my rifle in a case and carry some loaded magazinez. But that's not my style. I like being all hi-tech (bubba rigging) and having order. I basicly wanted to have a mount much like in what my patrol car has for my rifle. But in the end I decided not to build a mount for the rifle/ Something else caught my attention.


Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine with a Smith & Wesson Model 5906



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine with a GLOCK 17



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine GLOCK 22 plus an after market 29rd magazine



Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine GLOCK 22 plus an after market 29rd magazine


Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine

From what these photos show. The Kel-Tec SUB 2000 folds neatly in half and can be stored in a normal size brief case or laptop case. What I really like is the fact that since I always go into the storage area of my truck it looks like something normal. The Holster Rig in my center console is camouflaged by a baseball cap. Also, if I'm going into an office building or some such location no one will be the wiser. I believe it would work great for when I have go to my family's shop and such. I don't like leaving firearms unattended in my truck. Grabbing a rifle case in public is very obvious, grabbing a brief case is very common place.

The Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine also is chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum and .40 Smith & Wesson. Both are popular loads for pistols. While I wish i could do this with a rifle chambered firearm. Sadly no one makes a weapons that could fit the bill. Pistol caliber ammunition out of a 16 inch barrel is still suitable for what I want it for. A storable rifle that can be used in a SHTF situtation. Another plus is that the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 is designed to work off the following series of pistol magazines.

9x19mm Parabellum-
Smith & Wesson Model 59 Series
Beretta 92 Series
GLOCK 17
GLOCK 18
GLOCK 19
GLOCK 34
Sig Sauer P226

.40 Smith & Wesson-
Smith & Wesson Model 4006
Beretta 96 Series
GLOCK 22
GLOCK 23
GLOCK 35
Sig Sauer P226

I own a GLOCK 17, GLOCK 34, two GLOCK 19, and GLOCK 23. The first three listed GLOCKs that I own share the same magazine (Expect the GLOCK 19, it's magazines are too short to fit in the GLOCK 17 and GLOCK 34). All of my 9x19mm chambered GLOCKs that I own can use the GLOCK 18 33rd magazine to. I also own two Beretta 92FS pistols.

I would more than likely get the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine designed to use the GLOCK 19 magazines. So that means that I can use my other 9mm GLOCK magazine plus have some combat rifle load capacity (30rd or more) magazines for it too. Lastly it saves me money on the fact that I don't need to buy another ten magazines of another type to have a ready supply of magazines. I can use the magazines that I already own. That and be able to switch magazines between my carry and rifle incase I run out of ammunition in the GLOCK 33rd capacity magazines or if I hand the rifle or pistol over to a passenger in my truck and they run out of ammunition.


Price for the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 Carbine is around $200-$400 depending on where I go.



PS - 9x19mm Parabellum is dirt cheap which means I can take it out to the range and shoot many a 2 liter coke bottle without putting a hole in my wallet.

Jeez Louis , when are you AND your passenger likely to both run out of ammo?
Sounds to me the only time thats going to happen would be WWIII.
 


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