Which was Churchill's biggest wartime blunder? - Page 8




 
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September 19th, 2008  
Papashah41
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
Like Gallipoli, Anzio could have been successful given the correct ground commanders. I blame Clark most of all, if he had followed orders instead of going for Rome he could have cut off a fair proportion of the German army. Amazed he got away with this.
I agree, Churchill should not be blamed for the Anzio debacle. Who-ever chose Lucas to lead should be blamed. A smart commander could have taken Rome. It takes a little recon and a lot of Quick movement.
September 22nd, 2008  
errol
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papashah41
I agree, Churchill should not be blamed for the Anzio debacle. Who-ever chose Lucas to lead should be blamed. A smart commander could have taken Rome. It takes a little recon and a lot of Quick movement.
I agree, Lucas was a terrible choice and Clarke was in love with himself.

I read the following book last year about Anzio.

http://chaos.com/product/anzio_the_f...47_306928.html

It doesn't let Churchill off lightly. It's a great read.
October 15th, 2008  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
now for an alleged drunk he wrote a large number of books, did some great paintings, taught him self brick laying, wrote and delivered some of the worlds all time great speeches, was good politician and parliamentarian, he a good grasp of world events and for saw trouble looming long before many other people,
Winston Churchill certainly had a way with words, my all times favourites are:-

Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Nancy Astor: “Sir, if you were my husband, I would give you poison.”
Churchill: “If I were your husband I would take it.”
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October 18th, 2008  
LeEnfield
 
 
Anzio...............Much of the problem at Anzio was caused by the American General Mark Clark, who gave the American General in charge of these forces secret orders and instructed him not to tell the British General Alexander. In these orders Mark Clark instructed the General in charge not to break out from Anzio until he had enough men and equipment on the beach. By the time he had reached this stage the Germans had brought a large force to bear on Anzio crating a right **** up. Many of the early patrols that went out on day one drove almost into Rome meeting no opposition. So was it Churchill's fault or was it Mark Clark's.
Now talking about Mark Clark he took over at Anzio after the other chap got fired and after the he had broken out Mark Clark was instructed to cut across Italy and wipe out the Germans fleeing from Mont Casino, did he do it, well no he didn't he sent a small blocking force that the Germans wiped out and he went into Rome for a victory parade. His actions caused the war in Italy to go on for almost another years costing thousands of lives.
October 18th, 2008  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Anzio...............Much of the problem at Anzio was caused by the American General Mark Clark, who gave the American General in charge of these forces secret orders and instructed him not to tell the British General Alexander. In these orders Mark Clark instructed the General in charge not to break out from Anzio until he had enough men and equipment on the beach. By the time he had reached this stage the Germans had brought a large force to bear on Anzio crating a right **** up. Many of the early patrols that went out on day one drove almost into Rome meeting no opposition. So was it Churchill's fault or was it Mark Clark's.
Now talking about Mark Clark he took over at Anzio after the other chap got fired and after the he had broken out Mark Clark was instructed to cut across Italy and wipe out the Germans fleeing from Mont Casino, did he do it, well no he didn't he sent a small blocking force that the Germans wiped out and he went into Rome for a victory parade. His actions caused the war in Italy to go on for almost another years costing thousands of lives.
Yes I don't think there is any doubt that Anzio was Mark Clarks screw up both in failing to expand the beachhead rapidly and in deciding to try and make a name for himself by capturing Rome instead of cutting off the retreating German army once they did break out.

He is one General that should have been removed from his position after the Salerno landings.

In my opinion Churchill's biggest mistake during WW2 was failing to finish off the Italians in North Africa before diverting troops to Greece, in doing this he allowed time for the Germans to reinforce the Italians in Tunisia and ensured 2 further years of war in the region.
October 18th, 2008  
LeEnfield
 
 
Monty B........ Regarding your statement about failing to finish of the Italians first rather than send the troops to Greece, well I could not agree more
October 29th, 2008  
errol
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzio

Interesting read.
October 29th, 2008  
LeEnfield
 
 
Churchill had a good eye for the big plan, but unfortunately we did not have resources to carry out his ideas.
Most of the projects he proposed were very sound and a couple of times came close to pulling it off. Crete for instance the Commonwealth Troops killed so many German paratroopers that Hitler never used then as parachute troops again. Had the Generals in charge not pulled out of the main airfields to regroup, then the Germans would not have been able to land their J52 there with reinforcements which then allowed them to over run the Island. The Generals had been told that this airfield was the key to German success from information from Ultra yet they still left the Airfield to regroup.
The Cabinet and many of the General Staff also wanted to pull out from Malta and it was Churchill that said no to that one, was he right or was he wrong. Most of Churchill's ideas were spot on, what let him down many time was poor planning, and good leadership from the Generals
October 29th, 2008  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Yes the Dardanelles was Churchill's idea and the General Idea was a good one, the problems that arose where most of the Military Planners thought the real war was being fought on the western front. The General that was put in charge had never commanded much more than a desk, he was refused his list of Generals for his staff, but they the same ones were called in to get them out of this mess. Security was at a low level and every one that was any one knew that this action would take place and know doubt that this information had been passed on to Turkey. The troops did not have full level of Naval Support or artillery support that was required for action of this size, as all the guns were being sent to western front. Like many other thing the whole action is full of ifs and we will never really know just would of happened with better planning and equipment. The one thing you can't fault is the soldiers bravery.
I agree. He was badly let down by his commanders and lack of support.
October 31st, 2008  
tiktin
 
Winston Churchill was a great man. People of my generation can never forget what we owe him. He was largely responsible for the development of the tank in World War I, along with Col. Estienne in France. Unfortunately, he did not keep up with military developments between the wars and did not, at first, understand what was going on in France in l940. But to answer your question directly, I believe his greatest blunder was sending HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse to the far east, thinking it would discourage the Japanese from starting a war!