Which was Churchill's biggest wartime blunder?

This from the man who kicked this spat off with 'the fat racist'. Not only a weak insult but an absolute lie.

My last post stands for all to see. You asked the questions I answered them. No-one can tell me i don't know what it was like living in post-war England. I will wipe the floor with any of of your so-called experts any day of the week on such matters.

Defeating the Nazis was definitely Britains finest hour, Churchill its finest son. We would still go through hell for him again.

All the negatives were the price Britain paid, and knew that they were called on to pay. That's the nature of greatness. We survived poorer but unenslaved and proud and magnaminous.

All the rest is Destiny.

As for the opinions of your Austrian economic quotations, always remember this:-



University of Life Thesaurus


ACADEMICS > Praters Possibility Staters Regulators Old Potaters Parmesan Graters Ego Inflators Commonsense Haters Education Gravitators Work Spectators Wastepaper Creators Carbon Daters Western Baiters You’l l Have to Wait’ers Kiss me Katers I Know Maters Truth Deflaters Insulators Infiltrators Probability Raters Copper Platers Rubbish Collators Thin Ice Skaters Garden Feters Paper Raters Ambition Saters You are Laters Less than Straighters Kipper Craters Constipators.
Theory Freighters Ain’t I Greaters Security Traitors Perambulators
Perpetrators Cogitators Aggravators Agitators Perpetrators Abandoned Craters Detonators Roof Deslaters Fornicators Tosh Curators
Rogue Staters Impersonators Coagulators Implicators Escalators Irritators
Fabricators Desecrators Profligators One Eye Spectators Inebriators Collaberators
Disseminators Dissimulators Trafficators Accumulators…..




COMMAND THE FUTURE, CONQUER THE PAST.

Man, I love the lunatic ranting. "Gods I hates 'em akodemiks"! "Zem akodemiks nose nuttin'"
 
Ollie - did I say I hated Academics? I do not use the word hate. I have never hated anyone. i teach my grandchildren not to use it.

Are your comments a reflection of yourself old chap, cap does not fit here.

My strength and my weakness is that I always understand both sides of the coin, my own and that of my opponent.

I thought you liked quotations and opinions and theories, rather than facts, so I gave you a little treat.

Try not looking down from your pedestal, lest you lose balance.


COMMAND THE FUTURE, CONQUER THE PAST.
 
Last edited:
Moved

Thank you. I believe that your WW11 question on the quiz establishes that britain was already aware of the evil of the Nazi regime before the start of hostilities.

As for the other 5 questions, please note my responses to Ollie on the same isssues. Thanks again.

I see...I take the time to answer your questions, and you resort to the most childish tactics imaginable. Cool. I thought you wanted a debate. But you only wanted me to state something, that you then did not even read, and then proceeded into some kind of victory dance. Please enlighten me how my answers prove your point of view?

Since this thread is now a circus, how about some more stuff:

Let us look at my statement "fat racist" from this or another thread. I should actually have added the word "drunk". That would make Churchill a "fat drunken racist".

winston_churchill.jpg


(1) Fat: Churchill was fat. Only people more fat would disagree.

(2) Drunk: Churchill was a drunk. Even the Churchill Center website, that tries to argue that he was a "heavy user", agrees with this view.

(3) Racist: Churchill was a racist. I already proved that point

SOME CHURCHILL Quotes:

a) "I will not pretend that, if I had to choose between communism and nazism, I would choose communism" - Speaking in the House of Commons, 1937.

b) "I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes" - Writing as president of the Air Council.

c) "I do not admit...that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia...by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race...has come in and taken its place" - Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937.

d) "The unnatural and increasingly rapid growth of the feeble minded and insane classes, coupled as it is with a steady restriction among all the thrifty, energetic and superior stocks, constitutes a national and race danger which it is impossible to exaggerate...I feel that the source from which the stream of madness is fed should be cut off and sealed up before another year has passed" - Churchill to Asquith, 1910.

e) "One may dislike Hitler's system and yet admire his patriotic achievements. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations" - From 'Great Contemporaries', 1937.

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=99
 
The post of mine you quote was intended for Doppleganger, not you, which was why i thanked him. So we have been treated to a second dose your tirade re fatness, drunkeness and anything other that the murderous Nazi regime that defiled Germany and was confined to ashes by Winston Churchill.

One fat drunken racist Englishman was enough to bring down the third reich, according to you.
 
Well here is something a little different I think one of his bigger screw ups was ordering a halt to operation Compass and diverting troops from the desert army to the Greek campaign before they captured Tripoli and drove the Italians from the African theatre thus ensuring a foothold for the Afrika Korps and a further 2 years of fighting.

Yes, it was one of his shockers. The ANZACS paid a high price here too.
 
The problem with many of the quotes used are from a different era. Agreed Churchill drank and enjoyed a drink along with millions of other people, but I have never seen a report or spoken to any one that has seen him drunk, so just where did this drunk business come from. Now as we grow older we are all inclined to put on a bit of weight but it not seem to slow him down any.
now for an alleged drunk he wrote a large number of books, did some great paintings, taught him self brick laying, wrote and delivered some of the worlds all time great speeches, was good politician and parliamentarian, he a good grasp of world events and for saw trouble looming long before many other people, he was soldier of some note and also a war correspondent of even a bigger note. For those he would like to stand there and have a go about him all i can say if you can do just a fraction of what managed then I will listen to what you have to say
 
LeEnfield - as a totally unbiased onlooker on this subject I must say that I agree with your post completely. Yes, he was a big drinker, from a big-drinking culture. But I never heard of him being in any way incapacitated. He lived actively to a ripe old age, and served as a Parliamentarian for a great many senior years. He was very mature when he became PM. He was a fantastic inspirational leader for his people, who are quoted at the worst moments of the Lutwaffe blitzkreig in 1940 as looking at the rubble of their homes and saying to each other 'Churchill will save us'. This attitude accounts largely for the stoicism they developed throughout the conflict, and which served so well re. the IRA bombing and which we may have to rely on again in our current situation.
 
That is a hard question to answer. Though Churchill did blunder many times, he was the only one in Europe smart and brave enough to defy Adolph Hitler. And he began this long before the hostilities in 1939. Whenever I hear the words blunder and Churchill in the same sentence I think of Gallipoli. But I think the question deals only with WW2. Let us list some blunders. Posting General Percival to protect Singapore. Putting extra troops into Hong Kong instead of taking them out. Sending the Prince of Wales and the Repulse to Singapore without proper carrier protection. Relieving the Auk after his victory and flogging Montgomery onto an unsuspecting world. Whoops. that's my personal view, can't be doing that. Well O.K. it doesn't look good but there is something about the old bulldog I admire. And quoting Del Boy, he was an amazing Inspirational leader.
 
Last edited:
That is a hard question to answer. Though Churchill did blunder many times, he was the only one in Europe smart and brave enough to defie Adolph Hitler. And he began this long before the hostilities in 1939. Whenever I hear the words blunder and Churchill in the same sentence I think of Gallipoli. But I think the question deals only with WW2. Let us list some blunders. Posting General Percival to protect Singapore. Putting extra troops into Hong Kong instead of taking them out. Sending the Prince of Wales and the Repulse to Singapore without proper carrier protection. Relieving the Auk after his victory and flogging Montgomery onto an unsuspecting world. Whoops. that's my personal view, can't be doing that. Well O.K. it doesn't look good but there is something about the old bulldog I admire. And quoting Del Boy, he was an amazing Inspirational leader.

After reading more about Churchill's life and times, I think he got the bum rap for Gallipoli. Many others could also take equal share of the blame for getting into this mess.

I believe his biggest blunder was Anzio. He pushed and pushed for it when many others were very worried about the plan and believed it could be bloody disaster. Well, it was bloody and a near disaster.
 
Like Gallipoli, Anzio could have been successful given the correct ground commanders. I blame Clark most of all, if he had followed orders instead of going for Rome he could have cut off a fair proportion of the German army. Amazed he got away with this.
 
Like Gallipoli, Anzio could have been successful given the correct ground commanders. I blame Clark most of all, if he had followed orders instead of going for Rome he could have cut off a fair proportion of the German army. Amazed he got away with this.

I agree, Churchill should not be blamed for the Anzio debacle. Who-ever chose Lucas to lead should be blamed. A smart commander could have taken Rome. It takes a little recon and a lot of Quick movement.
 
now for an alleged drunk he wrote a large number of books, did some great paintings, taught him self brick laying, wrote and delivered some of the worlds all time great speeches, was good politician and parliamentarian, he a good grasp of world events and for saw trouble looming long before many other people,

Winston Churchill certainly had a way with words, my all times favourites are:-

Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Nancy Astor: “Sir, if you were my husband, I would give you poison.”
Churchill: “If I were your husband I would take it.”
 
Anzio...............Much of the problem at Anzio was caused by the American General Mark Clark, who gave the American General in charge of these forces secret orders and instructed him not to tell the British General Alexander. In these orders Mark Clark instructed the General in charge not to break out from Anzio until he had enough men and equipment on the beach. By the time he had reached this stage the Germans had brought a large force to bear on Anzio crating a right **** up. Many of the early patrols that went out on day one drove almost into Rome meeting no opposition. So was it Churchill's fault or was it Mark Clark's.
Now talking about Mark Clark he took over at Anzio after the other chap got fired and after the he had broken out Mark Clark was instructed to cut across Italy and wipe out the Germans fleeing from Mont Casino, did he do it, well no he didn't he sent a small blocking force that the Germans wiped out and he went into Rome for a victory parade. His actions caused the war in Italy to go on for almost another years costing thousands of lives.
 
Anzio...............Much of the problem at Anzio was caused by the American General Mark Clark, who gave the American General in charge of these forces secret orders and instructed him not to tell the British General Alexander. In these orders Mark Clark instructed the General in charge not to break out from Anzio until he had enough men and equipment on the beach. By the time he had reached this stage the Germans had brought a large force to bear on Anzio crating a right **** up. Many of the early patrols that went out on day one drove almost into Rome meeting no opposition. So was it Churchill's fault or was it Mark Clark's.
Now talking about Mark Clark he took over at Anzio after the other chap got fired and after the he had broken out Mark Clark was instructed to cut across Italy and wipe out the Germans fleeing from Mont Casino, did he do it, well no he didn't he sent a small blocking force that the Germans wiped out and he went into Rome for a victory parade. His actions caused the war in Italy to go on for almost another years costing thousands of lives.

Yes I don't think there is any doubt that Anzio was Mark Clarks screw up both in failing to expand the beachhead rapidly and in deciding to try and make a name for himself by capturing Rome instead of cutting off the retreating German army once they did break out.

He is one General that should have been removed from his position after the Salerno landings.

In my opinion Churchill's biggest mistake during WW2 was failing to finish off the Italians in North Africa before diverting troops to Greece, in doing this he allowed time for the Germans to reinforce the Italians in Tunisia and ensured 2 further years of war in the region.
 
Last edited:
Monty B........ Regarding your statement about failing to finish of the Italians first rather than send the troops to Greece, well I could not agree more
 
Churchill had a good eye for the big plan, but unfortunately we did not have resources to carry out his ideas.
Most of the projects he proposed were very sound and a couple of times came close to pulling it off. Crete for instance the Commonwealth Troops killed so many German paratroopers that Hitler never used then as parachute troops again. Had the Generals in charge not pulled out of the main airfields to regroup, then the Germans would not have been able to land their J52 there with reinforcements which then allowed them to over run the Island. The Generals had been told that this airfield was the key to German success from information from Ultra yet they still left the Airfield to regroup.
The Cabinet and many of the General Staff also wanted to pull out from Malta and it was Churchill that said no to that one, was he right or was he wrong. Most of Churchill's ideas were spot on, what let him down many time was poor planning, and good leadership from the Generals
 
Yes the Dardanelles was Churchill's idea and the General Idea was a good one, the problems that arose where most of the Military Planners thought the real war was being fought on the western front. The General that was put in charge had never commanded much more than a desk, he was refused his list of Generals for his staff, but they the same ones were called in to get them out of this mess. Security was at a low level and every one that was any one knew that this action would take place and know doubt that this information had been passed on to Turkey. The troops did not have full level of Naval Support or artillery support that was required for action of this size, as all the guns were being sent to western front. Like many other thing the whole action is full of ifs and we will never really know just would of happened with better planning and equipment. The one thing you can't fault is the soldiers bravery.

I agree. He was badly let down by his commanders and lack of support.
 
Last edited:
Winston Churchill was a great man. People of my generation can never forget what we owe him. He was largely responsible for the development of the tank in World War I, along with Col. Estienne in France. Unfortunately, he did not keep up with military developments between the wars and did not, at first, understand what was going on in France in l940. But to answer your question directly, I believe his greatest blunder was sending HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse to the far east, thinking it would discourage the Japanese from starting a war!
 
Back
Top