Christianity Spreading in Iran via Multimedia - Page 2




 
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Christianity Spreading in Iran via Multimedia
 
June 29th, 2007  
phoenix80
 
 

Christianity Spreading in Iran via Multimedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by CABAL
CUT THE B.S.

No religion in this world has clean hands. The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades. Millions of people have been murdered senselessly in the name of God, motivated by the radical interpretation of Islam or Christianity.

If you want people in Iran to be more "tolerant", religion is the most stupid approach yet.
Stop being clueless, dude. People in Iran, by converting to christianity, risk the death penalty and show defiance in the face of medieval regime that is discriminating against religious minorities. You've lived all your life in the hands of your socialized economy and social care and you do not understand what people do in other countries. You are as clueless as one could be. You would never get the point and I doubt you ever will.

Braving the death penalty by converting to christianity is a show of defiance and is a brave act and like I said it is beyond your ability to comprehend so I'd leave it at that.
June 29th, 2007  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
This may be a fad or it may not. Converting then acknowledging that conversion in public are two different things. Practice what you preach etc. It will take decades to see any kind of positive impact from this.

Infern0:

I believe he was talking about the majority of Christian religion(s) that are taught today vs the majority of Islamic religion(s) that are taught today. I profess to my ignorance on how many different sects of Islam religions there are vs the multitudes of Christian religion(s).

Since you profess to be an authority, show me some examples (within the past 10 years) of how Christianity has consistently and majoratively been taught to be a violent religion vs Islamic consistently and majoratively taught to be a peaceful religion. (I think i said that right).

If you can not or will not do this then you shouldn't make blanket statements about how one religion is or is not worse/better than another in some or all areas of belief.

Personally I can not think of any religion other than Islam that tells a person they are charged to kill non-believers (Infidels).
If I were you, I wouldn't waste my time debating with the clueless crowd!
June 29th, 2007  
CABAL
 
 

Quote:
Stop being clueless, dude. People in Iran, by converting to christianity, risk the death penalty and show defiance in the face of medieval regime that is discriminating against religious minorities. You've lived all your life in the hands of your socialized economy and social care and you do not understand what people do in other countries. You are as clueless as one could be. You would never get the point and I doubt you ever will.

Braving the death penalty by converting to christianity is a show of defiance and is a brave act and like I said it is beyond your ability to comprehend so I'd leave it at that.
Putting your religious semantics aside, your ability to comprehend other people's statements is seriously a problem.

Quote:
I said Christianity is a "more peaceful religion" than Islam... You can't deny it!
Quote:
worshipping islamic stuff and gods.
Quote:
I am an agnostic myself but you can't deny the fact that Christianity is way more peaceful than Islam since it has gone thru enlightenment era and has become peaceful over the time.
Provide your evidence.

If you can't provide supportive evidence, then spare us your BS. Infer0 has already refuted your claims and your persistent attitude that Christianity is a more "peaceful" religion truly shows how ignorant and clueless you are. Your generalizations and statements with no supportive evidence makes them nothing.

Just cut the bullcrap. No one wants to hear any of this Islam vs. Christianity discussion you are attempting to incite.
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Christianity Spreading in Iran via Multimedia
June 29th, 2007  
phoenix80
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CABAL

Just cut the bullcrap. No one wants to hear any of this Islam vs. Christianity discussion you are attempting to incite.
That's not up to you to decide!
June 30th, 2007  
Infern0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
Since you profess to be an authority, show me some examples (within the past 10 years) of how Christianity has consistently and majoratively been taught to be a violent religion vs Islamic consistently and majoratively taught to be a peaceful religion. (I think i said that right).
im not going to limit it to the last 10 years, thats stupid when we are talking about religions thousands of years old. but i will limit it to recent history


bosnia sticks out in my mind, muslims were on the receiving end of that nasty hate campaign

Northern ireland sectarian violence between protestants and catholics

westboro (sp) baptist church. sure it's a fringe sect, but after all, isn't that what we are talking about here?

and various "pro-life" christian movements who think pipe bombing abortion clinics is acceptable.


oh....and the holocaust was carried out by by people who professed to be christian


in my mind, it's not the denomination as much as it is fundamentalism, the are fringe sects of almost any faith/religion out there....and 9 times out of 10 they're the loony violent ones.

when you tar islam as being a violent religion, you're taring what? about 1.3 billion people with the same brush.



truth is that it's only really in this century that radical islam has had an issue. and that goes hand in hand with the demand for oil, and the cold war.

IMHO the worst thing the west did, was assist the taliban against the soviets, as this has had a global fall out including, and surpassing the 9/11 attacks. as this included the CIA supplying them with some of the most violent interpretations of the koran ever known. all in an effort to kill more soviets. little thought was made toward what would happen after the cold war was over.


the trick here i think, is to make sure the middle east prospers, for as the middle class grows, the less of a foothold radicals will have to exploit.

of course that easier said than done. but imo liberal islam and the eradication of radical islam is well worth it
June 30th, 2007  
Padre
 
 
Interesting debate.

Some of you may be confusing "Christianity" the religion, and individual Christians or groups who despite the teachings of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity Incarnate (Jesus Christ) have opted to solve a justice issue, or a moral issue, or a culture issue, whatever, with violent means rather than with non-violent means.

Early Christian influence saw the end of the Roman pagan sport where human beings were butchered, slaughtered, or eaten, for entertainment in numerous arenas around the Empire.

No where in the authorised Christian text - the New Testament - is it sanctioned to kill somone if they don't convert to Chritianity. Christian individuals, rulers and ordinary citizens alike, have (mass) murdered but not with the sanction of Christ.

Neither does the New Testament endorse executing or mutilating transgressors of its teachings - save one metaphor used by Christ regarding that if your hand causes you to sin cut it off as it is better to enter heaven without it than to go to hell with it.

In comparision we have:

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)
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KORAN promises of houris in heaven:

Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49
Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54
Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57
Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22
...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56
Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37
(Different translation) Companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... virgin-pure and undefiled.
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Koran "sharia" punishments:

As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah. - Surah 5:38
June 30th, 2007  
Infern0
 
well, i have quite a few muslim friends, have visited a few muslim states and have never once had my head cut off.



im sure we could have a mighty thread if we went through religious text present all the loony, outdated quotes.

but i'll just post this one:

http://homophobelol.ytmnd.com/
June 30th, 2007  
Redleg
 
 
Topic reminder:
Christianity Spreading in Iran via Multimedia


If you want to discuss anything else than that then please start a new thread.

Thanks
June 30th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80
Braving the death penalty by converting to christianity is a show of defiance and is a brave act......
Change the words "converting to Christianity" to "becoming a suicide Bomber" and your post would read like it was Posted by a Muslim at War with the United States of America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80
The Christian Post, in April. SAT-7 has a viewer reach of eight to 10 million in the Middle East and north Africa.
I see where SAT-7 has a viewer reach of a [mere] 8 to 10 million in the Middle East and North Africa, however it does not state how many actually watch it.
Likewise, as for the Internet, I'm sure someone can lend De Groot a few bucks and he can buy a program which tracks Internet Website Hits, so he can place that number in his next Fund Drive Letter.... or blog.

If the Iranian Muslims were serious about changing Iran and reshaping it into a "Christian" nation, then the Iranian Muslims would start picking up Weapons and killing all non-Christians in Iran who stand in their way. I believe a few Million under Arms could turn the tide..... no, wait a minute, scratch that, what was I thinking..... if the Iranian Muslims were serious about becoming Christians, good Christians, well, they would obey the Government of Iran, turn the other cheek, and if it comes, welcome death as merely a new beginning.
 


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