"do u know how old type 56 is? it is in the 60s, and do u know 50-60 years ago 99% chinese are farmers?"

Doesn't matter when stamped manufacturing year is 2000.

"if the chinese are poor in manufacturing, how the heck u think they could launch someone into space? produce Su 27, Type 98G etc???"

Even norinco kills, if hits.

"dun use sources over 2-3 years old. its not relaible at the rate china is growing."

I know things are changing but major changes don't happen in a few years.

Snauhi and Eurospike, what educational level are you both in? Do you not suscribe and read to high-quality, Professional journalism lately? Listen to the words of those highly educated professionals. Trust me, almost all of the editorial articles written about China are constantily warning their own people and governments about the "China Threat."

Many of these Commentators complained that people who still hold the belief that China still has a long way to go and outdated holds a huge miscalculation and it can harm the nation's role to compete against others. A handful of high intelluects believes that if China is able to shock the world, the West might not be able to recover from their own ground thus they will trail behind from several nations, shifting the balance of power to Asia.

Here are my insights and perspectives:

I think Europe is too tired, too tired of bickering with each other, and way too tired of war. Europe's future seems to be unclear but it is certain that if the entire continent's decision is to compete again would simply exhaust its resources and the people.

However, the United States still remains as a the most powerful nation on Earth and held the prestige title of withholding the greatest technological innovations and inventions in the world. But its future seems ominous as the future Generations of the entire nation is seems to be numb to the "China Threat" and many of their minds are set to personal rewards plus secured early retirement. Their educational studies seems to be worthless to them when they are young and yet when they realize when they grow older, it is already too late. The United States was able to respond succesfully to Russian's Sputnik Satellite during the 50's, but I fear it is already too late to do that again.

Yup and Chinese weapons can be expected to get better and better.
Some of the top engineering students at American universities are Chinese and no doubt a good deal of these people will be drawn back to China for the prestige of playing an important part in their country's drive for Super Power status.

Redneck_13, I certainly agree. 25% of the highest Engineering sectors of very prestigous schools in America are Chinese Nationals. The majority of them might return in response to the lure of the Government, giving them very high-paid salaries and benefits instantly.

If you cannot provide sources for your information, either 1) do not post it, or 2) post it prefaced by an "in my opinion" or words to that effect.


Cabal, personal attacks are not welcome or tolerated here. Whatever you may think your own intellectual superiority might be, you will not insult the intelligence of other members, however deserving of this you may think they are.

"Snauhi and Eurospike, what educational level are you both in? Do you not suscribe and read to high-quality, Professional journalism lately? Listen to the words of those highly educated professionals. Trust me, almost all of the editorial articles written about China are constantily warning their own people and governments about the "China Threat."

University, but i don't know about Snauhi. I know "China threat" and i am a bit concerned about it. Western corporations are investing and moving their actions, specially manufacture to China and other cheap labour countries. No need to pay workers as much as in Europe and no labour unions dissturbing. I heard in news that in Germany some workers made a compromiss and agreed to decrease their pay to keep their jobs in future. Let's see what is coming during next years, time will tell.

All off topic responses have been deleted. Any future off-topics from these members will result in further action.

I read BusinessWeek's previous issue last night and according to an American Journalists writing insights, he believes that one area that remains underreported is acknowledging China is currently "clawing" its way up to become a technological superstate and might overtake the US if not, equal in strength.

Most of American Corporations sent to China for manufacturing contributed many of China's indeginious developments, but that is not all. Since 1985, the government's Gross Domestic Product for Research and Development have grown 40%.

And note that these numbers are just merely estimates and the actual ones are secretive and cannot be viewed by ordinary Chinese Citizens or any foreigner.

Unfortuntetily, I cannot directily link the article because BusinessWeek has strict policies on viewing their works in order to keep suscribers like myself happy while paying for weekly suscription.


But, there is hope yet. Below is the source and it requires registration if you are not a Businessweek suscriber.

link and instructions: www.businessweek.com Once in the home page, go to the search tab and type in "Tech Threat from China" and the first article shown is the article. Please note that you need to register to read the article as it is free to do so.

Type 81 rifle, but they are changing it into type 95. just check sinodefence.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/rifle_81.asp

Originally Posted by EuroSpike

"do u know how old type 56 is? it is in the 60s, and do u know 50-60 years ago 99% chinese are farmers?"

Doesn't matter when stamped manufacturing year is 2000.

Do u actually know they dun make type 56 anymore? so what r u talking about stamped year is 2000?

"if the chinese are poor in manufacturing, how the heck u think they could launch someone into space? produce Su 27, Type 98G etc???"

Even norinco kills, if hits.

SO what r u trying to point out? u totally ignore wat i said.

"dun use sources over 2-3 years old. its not relaible at the rate china is growing."

I know things are changing but major changes don't happen in a few years.

Yes they do, u better start actually reading something about china before u discuss about the topic, since that's just waste ppl time reading ur posts, ur posts doesnt prove anything at all, in fact chinese are making thier own awacs:

China Now Test-Flying Homemade AWACS
Radar Planes Intended For Use in Taiwan Strait

By Edward Cody
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, November 13, 2004; Page A19

BEIJING, Nov. 12 -- The Chinese military, undeterred by a U.S. veto that blocked the purchase of Israeli planes, has developed its own radar surveillance aircraft and is test-flying the first models for early deployment in the Taiwan Strait, according to military specialists.

The Chinese airborne warning and control system, or AWACS, uses domestically produced advanced radar mounted on a Russian-made Il-76 transport aircraft. Analysts said the AWACS marks an important step in the government's campaign to develop the modern military necessary to back up its threat to reunite Taiwan with the mainland by force if necessary.

Electronic weaponry -- in this case, equipment to monitor the skies and control warplanes over a wide battlefield -- has been a major focus of extensive military improvements in recent years. In particular, AWACS has long been seen by the military as an indispensable tool for air superiority over the 100-mile strait separating Taiwan from the mainland.

"You've got to have those AWACS up there or you're not going anywhere," said a foreign military attache in Beijing describing China's need for such a system in the event of conflict with Taiwan.

Chinese military technicians have been struggling to acquire AWACS-type equipment since the United States pressured Israel in 2000 to back out of a $1 billion agreement to sell China four of its Phalcon phased-array radar systems. The systems also would have used Il-76 aircraft as a platform.

The main U.S. concern in blocking the sale was that China would gain a military advantage over Taiwan. Moreover, under the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act, the U.S. government has pledged to help Taiwan defend itself against any Chinese attack, meaning U.S. forces could become involved should fighting erupt.

For the same reasons, People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force leaders were determined to acquire such a plane. "After the 2000 Israeli fiasco, the PLA made it a matter of high pride to prove to the Americans they would not be denied AWACS," said Richard D. Fisher Jr., a U.S.-based specialist on the Chinese military.

At first, China turned to Russia, its traditional source of military equipment. The Beijing government concluded a deal to buy four Beriev A-50 Mainstay radar planes, which are roughly the Russian equivalent of the U.S. Air Force's E-3 Sentry AWACS. The purchase was believed to be the first phase of an agreement for up to eight of the Russian aircraft.

At the same time, however, Chinese scientists were at work on their own radar equipment. It is not known whether any of the Russian craft were ever delivered, which would have provided a look at the technology, or whether the technicians obtained help from Israeli or Russian counterparts. In any case, the Chinese AWACS that has begun test flights bears a strong resemblance to the A-50, which also uses the Il-76.

The AWACS could be operational within one or two years assuming the tests are successful, the specialists said. It was not known how many are planned for production, but Fisher noted eight would allow for a 24-hour patrol at both ends of the Taiwan Strait.

The Defense Ministry, which treats most military subjects as secret, did not reply to a request for information on the AWACS project.

Whatever the ultimate production schedule, AWACS development fits into a steady growth in the amount and sophistication of armaments on both sides of the strait, making a confrontation between China and Taiwan potentially one of the world's most dangerous.

The leadership has steadily increased military budgets in recent years and sought to reform the manpower-heavy but technology-short PLA as swiftly as possible. According to U.S. and Taiwanese officials, the government has deployed nearly 600 short-range ballistic missiles in southern China aimed at targets in Taiwan. The number grows by about 75 a year, they say.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, who began a second four-year term in May, has insisted the 13,500-square mile territory is independent and should stay that way. Soon after taking office in May, his government decided on an $18.2 billion arms purchase from the United States, including 12 P-3C Orion submarine-hunting planes, eight diesel-electric submarines and six PAC-3 batteries equipped with more than 350 Patriot anti-missile missiles.

But the opposition Nationalist and People First parties, which have a majority in the legislature, declined this week to approve Chen's budget for the purchase, arguing it was too expensive and in some ways inappropriate for Taiwan's needs. The issue is unlikely to be resolved until after the next legislative elections, scheduled for Dec. 11.

In the meantime, both sides have continued individual purchases that notch up the technology level of their militaries by matching threat for threat.

China, for instance, in 2002 bought from Israel a number of Harpy anti-radar drones, which can loiter over enemy territory and drop munitions on radars turned on to guide air defenses. Meanwhile, Taiwan has obtained authorization from the Bush administration to buy high-speed anti-radiation missiles, which also can target air defenses by homing in on radar emissions, Chin Hui-chu, a Taiwanese legislator on the National Defense committee, recently told the Taiwan News.


http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard.../3682619.shtml

China – Rising Asian Powerhouse
By Chris Cumming



Napoleon once famously remarked, “China is a sleeping giant. Let her lie and sleep, for when she awakens she will astonish the world.” Attention world, the sleeping giant is now fully awake! First it was in trade, then technologies and now in an ever-increasing military build-up. China is truly becoming a superpower on the world stage.



For decades, Garner Ted Armstrong proclaimed, “The prophecies show that the 'men of the east' will be drawn into a gigantic conflict in the Middle East – in modern-day Israel!” He drew these words from the prophecies of Daniel and specifically Daniel 11: 40-44 where we read of a Beast power descending into the Middle East with its mighty armies conquering many nations. In verse 44 we see this Beast power concerned with opposing armies to the north and to the east…



“But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.” – Dan. 11:44



For this prophecy to unfold, we must first witness these “men of the east” attaining a level of strength for which the Beast power could find itself so troubled. Poring over a number of recent news stories, editorials and institutional papers on China, I gleaned the following kinds of phraseology:



A Global Power Shift in the Making

China is the most obvious power on the rise

China is rapidly developing into a global economic force

China is already a regional superpower, and it is in the process of becoming a world power

China – 21st-century giant



China is in the middle of a huge arms build-up aided, ironically, by United Europe. In one editorial I read, the EU is doing this to offset the US as being the lone superpower in the world. Berlin and Paris are, even now, moving to lift an arms embargo against Beijing in place since Tiananmen Square. If the US is forced to focus on breaking events in the Far East, such as possible war between China and Taiwan or the nuclear stand-off with North Korea, the EU could pursue its own interest and agenda unhindered by Washington.



Another indicator I found is a marked increase in China’s demand for oil. Seemingly overnight, China has gone from a five million barrel-a-day to an over eight million barrel-a-day economy. This will only exacerbate the building oil crisis in the region. It will also force a more focused attention by China on the Middle East oil reserves. China could easily find itself in an oil rivalry with the other rising superpower in the Far East, Japan.



Superpower Status


China’s superpower status is not going unnoticed in certain of the World press. Notice this from a Foreign Policy.org editorial by James Hoge, Jr., “A Global Power Shift in the Making”:



“The transfer of power from West to East is gathering pace and soon will dramatically change the context for dealing with international challenges -- as well as the challenges themselves. Many in the West are already aware of Asia's growing strength. This awareness, however, has not yet been translated into preparedness. And therein lies a danger: that Western countries will repeat their past mistakes.



“Major shifts of power between states, not to mention regions, occur infrequently and are rarely peaceful. In the early twentieth century, the imperial order and the aspiring states of Germany and Japan failed to adjust to each other. The conflict that resulted devastated large parts of the globe. Today, the transformation of the international system will be even bigger and will require the assimilation of markedly different political and cultural traditions. This time, the populous states of Asia are the aspirants seeking to play a greater role. Like Japan and Germany back then, these rising powers are nationalistic, seek redress of past grievances, and want to claim their place in the sun. Asia's growing economic power is translating into greater political and military power, thus increasing the potential damage of conflicts.”



Growing World Economy


Later, in the same editorial he states that China’s economy is expected to be double the size of Germany’s by 2010 and to overtake Japan’s, currently the world’s second largest, by 2020. I feel certain that both will take place more rapidly than Mr. Hoge’s estimate.



Still in this same editorial, he states the members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) are seriously considering a monetary union. The result could be an enormous trade bloc, which would account for much of Asia's -- and the world's -- economic growth. Can you imagine the impact of first the Euro and now a single Asian currency on the global economy?! Are you aware of the fact the EU has been a trading partner with ASEAN since 1980!!



In a recent on-line audio program on the Internet, “China Rising” it was stated, “Recent projections forecast that China is well on its way to becoming a superpower in manufacturing, technology, and telecommunications. It is now the world's second largest consumer of oil, and is exporting everything from TVs to DVD players to cell phones.”



Military Threat


Peter Brookes, senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation in his July 19th article, “Arming China” about Europe supplying arms and related technologies to China, stated:



“China is engaged in a major military buildup that goes far beyond its defensive needs. In the next few years, China will develop real military options for muscling its democratic neighbor Taiwan (which Beijing considers a renegade province). Down the road, China looks toward dominating Japan and Southeast Asia, too.”



We just recently ran a news story about a new Chinese aircraft-carrier-killing attack submarine that apparently caught the West totally off guard. Is it any wonder the US ran 7 of its 12 aircraft carrier groups out into the Pacific in recent weeks?



Mr. Brookes also stated:



“Ultimately, (China’s) long-term, military modernization game plan is to deter, delay or deny U.S. intervention in any Asian conflict involving China. Beyond that, (China) seeks to ultimately replace America as the preeminent military power in the Pacific.



“China is a notorious weapons proliferator — from weapons of mass destruction to small arms. Its record on export controls is abysmal. Sensitive European technology will surely fall into the hands of China's roguish friends: Iran, North Korea, Syria and Burma.



“So why are the Europeans doing this?



“Two reasons: To balance American global power and — tah dah! — to make money.


“Paris and Berlin have long pushed for a multipolar world, in which the United States' overwhelming power is balanced (read: weakened) by other power centers (i.e., poles) such as the EU, China and Russia.”



There you have it…"such as the EU, China and Russia.” These are the three predicted players in Mr. Armstrong’s predictions regarding Daniel 11:40-44. The EU is the Beast who, while conquering and occupying the Middle East, becomes troubled by the “tidings out of the east and out of the north”, China and Russia respectively.



Prophetic pieces are now falling into place! We are living through changes that may appear slow if observed from the point of view of daily headlines, but we are watching unfolding events with a global eye and a foundation of Bible prophecy where events are moving fast.. As Mr. Armstrong stated many times, “Watch!!" That is precisely what the organization he founded must do.

Today's China is not what your image is. in fact eurospike and snauhi, u dun know very much about china at all, you are just giving comments without any sources. and Snauhi this aint chinese propaganda.

here is that tank, this is a chinese design btw, china today is not copying the russian as much as u think anymore:

T-99 = T-98G

Type 98G features new explosive reaction armour and Leopard 2 A6-style additional reinforcement to the turret frontal armour with externally mounted add-on armour modules.

Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98.asp

Crew: 3
Weight: 50 tons
Engine: 1,200 hp liquid cooled diesel
Transmission: Mechanical, planetary
Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels
Suspension: Torsion bar
Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone, laser communications
Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 2.00 m; Width: 3.40 m
Ground Pressure: N/A
Cruising Range: 450 km, or 600 km with external tanks
Speed: Max road 65 km/h; max off-road 47 km/h; average cross-country 35 km/h; max swim N/A
Fording Depths: 5 m with snorkel
Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore
Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min
Elevation/Depression: N/A
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun; one 12.7 mm air-defence machine gun
Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel

Researchers plan advanced medium utility aircraft that could rival Agusta/Bell AB139

China has launched a project to develop a 6,000kg (13,200lb) civil helicopter that may compete against the new Agusta/Bell AB139.

The China Helicopter Research and Design Institute (CHRDI) is designing the advanced medium utility helicopter and it displayed a model of the aircraft for the first time last week at the Zhuhai air show.

The director of CHRDI's international co-operation department, Huan Lan, says so far the helicopter is based entirely on indigenous Chinese technologies, although it resembles the AB139. Huan says CHRDI is considering proposals from several Western and Chinese engine manufacturers and will later consider partnering a Western helicopter manufacturer to help develop core parts.

"If necessary we will be looking for a foreign partner to develop the helicopter, provided both sides are willing and there is a co-operative agreement," Huan says.

Western manufacturers expect China will need help developing the rotor blades, gearbox and drive system and believe Eurocopter may have already provided some technology. But Huan says CHRDI has not yet decided which parts, if any, will be developed jointly with Western manufacturers.

AgustaWestland chief executive Amedeo Caporaletti says Agusta is open to co-operating on the project despite the similarities with the AB139. "The 139 is a unique helicopter. Nobody can reverse engineer such a helicopter," he says, adding that to develop an aircraft like the AB139 would take eight to nine years.

Huan says the helicopter will fly in three to four years. CHRDI parent China Aviation Industries II has not yet formally decided which of its factories will manufacture the new helicopter, but it is expected to be Harbin. Sales will be targeted at operators in the transport, offshore oil, medical evacuation, maritime patrol and search and rescue sectors. The advanced medium utility helicopter would be China's fourth indigenous civilian helicopter following the 2,000kg Z-11, 4,000kg Z-9 and 13,000kg Z-8.

BRENDAN SOBIE / ZHUHAI

http://www.flightinternational.com/f...txtTotalRecs=6

so, seems like technological pressure is getting closer and closer huh?

wow, alot of infomation

china is becoming more of an mechanized and armored army by the day as factories turned out tanks

it is important to note that a large portion of the chinese army is motorized due to the avability of trucks but more importantly apcs