proteinxx,

your post is simply great

If there were more bright people like you in control of world, we will get a much better life on this planet.

Btw. Taiwan is not a Carrier which can move, Taiwan will always be located in that place just 200KM from Mainland China.

Oh again, when China becomes Superpower, those independence wannaba taiwanese will come to kiss Chinese arse to say they are also Chinese because they also speak Chinese Mandarians

Poll shows half of Taiwanese oppose war to resist mainland invasion.


If Taiwanese independence is declared via democratic methods, but the mainland decides to invade, 47.6% would not support fighting a war to preserve Taiwanese democracy and independence. 34.7% supports fighting a war in such a case."

Taiwanese (in Chinese) source:
http://gb.udn.com/gb/udn.com/NEWS/NA.../2144282.shtml

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Taiwan dident help China with anything...There is almost no cooperation between the 2 sides.. The Chinese want Taiwan back because they see it as a part of China.

Hmmm...China did not take Hong-Kong, the 99 years of lease to the UK ended, and Hong-Kong wqas rightfully given back to China.

How is that understandable? what is understandable about using WMDs on someone who is no threat to you. I suggest that you rethink that.

How is that the same logic?

Taiwan and China have major trade. Some where around 17% of forign cash. Tiawan has been independent for a long time. They made their own desisions for how long? 50 years.
my bad on Hong Kong.
The Japanese never apologiesed for their actions against asian countries during world war 2, Germany did. I don't want to see anyone nuked. Exept for NK.

Why should NK be nuked? That would not only cause a nuclear war, and seal S.koreas fate for sure, but it would also be a human rights fiasco. Just because the overnment of N. Korea is a bad one, doesn't mea the innocent ones should pay the price as well. I believe most men are conscripted into the north Korean army as well. When you need to conscript to build a powerful army, it usually means that the people arent the least bit patriotic about their government at the time.

Originally Posted by proteinxx

Hello, friends, I really like this forum. I myself barely post anything, but I don’t feel good when I see some people showing strong hostile to China, so I want to make some comments here:

First: I think China is just trying to stop losing what originally belongs to them.----Remember: China never said they are eagerly take that province back unless that province eager to declare dependence. Why China can be just little open mind and just let it go? Go to library and read some books, I am sure you can find some answers. And why China these time show such strong desire to stop this? Check some news happened in last few months.

good point proteinxx, but just how far back do we go to establish the actual ownership of Taiwan (formerly Formosa) ? 50 years? 100 years? 150 years? You see that little island was independant at one time, it had an aboriginal colony of people on it.. But its been handed back and forth so many times by so many conquers its difficult to establish the true "owner". One could consider the same logic when you look at Cuba and the US. We did get Cuba as the result of a war. We gave it its independance. welll....what are cubans though? Spanish? Slaves of African decent? the original aboriginal natives? where does the actual ownership start? at the hands of the largest gun?


Second: Every empire dies----NO EXCEPTION, most of them die from being arrogant---again, dear friends, read some history books. I understand American do not have history but I wish American at least try to read some history books---even just a high school history textbook. 200 years as for a country is very short period of time, 50 years as super power is just a simple glimpse second in the time of history. This world is much more broad than most American think.

I would take offense to this as an American, but i believe your precept is essentially correct. being arragant can lead to a downfall of a nation..that and stupidity, greediness, and ignorance. Id wish more american kids would read history..we can learn from it. The really unreconize fact of your point is this: we are a nation of history. Our natiion was founded on the dissadents, the down trodden, the outcasts from around the world, each bringing their storys of their history, their dislikes, their rememberances. They for the most part, taught it to their young in this land. A lot of us are conditioned from birth to naturally distrust, or suspect any country but our own for largely this reason.

Third: Do not talk nuclear war like a PC game, your girl friend and my girl friend both could really die if there is going to a nuclear war. A person still can survive for a while even he is arrogant----- but if he is arrogant AND ignorant, he is just running straight into his tomb and record of his life is a piece of joke.

so far.. most of the young people who have posted on this subject, when bringing up nuclear war, treat it just like a PC game: it is that distant from them, because they have lived with it so long, it is distant, and non-connected to reality. Arrogance and ignorance will get you killed...just as well as complacency. now if you poll the average young person, i dont think you'll find that nuclear war is ver high on their impotant life lists.


Forth: There are devil Chinese and devil American, don let them fool us and doom the future. Try to think with our own brain and stop conflicts.

agree.

Fifth: China is evolving, even communists there are still calling themselves communists, China is overall becoming free world step by step. Considering its size and population please give it time---Just don’t take it for granted and think China as communist evil. Nobody like Communist---that is the reason they are chaning!! Try to think about China society like 1900s USA. And don’t forget Chinese and American were allies again Japs in WWII. The nature of people from both sides is not hostile to each other at all. But if you push it too hard, you are creating a real enemy. If you really want to talk about war----think about Chinese shadow in war in Vietnam and war in Korea the same time when you think about war in Iraq. America is developing, changing and improving, the world around you are also changing and improving. There is no single big country that is really ruled by a bunch of stupid guys and just sit there let you kill them if you do not like them anymore. Beside, look around everything selling in Walmart, if it is just one or two items produced from one place, it is not big deal, but when you talk about almost EVERYTHING and EVERYDAY from the SAME PLACE!! ---THAT IS NO MORE JUST “NOT A BIG DEAL!” And it happened just in 20 years. Think about what will be like in next 20 years. Nobody wants war, but arrogant and ignorant definitely will create one. Everybody lose in such a war between two big countries.

Agree. unfortunatly, when China becomes so big, and so populated that it cant feed itself anymore...I really dont want to be in the way of hungrey, un-happy people. They forget about democracy...they forget about communism...they forget about most things except that big ache in their adominal area. and what really worrys me is a group of "leaders" saying the right things that would fill those hungry bellies...

Last: again, dear friends, watch less Hollywood movie, read more books and you will begin to understand what is arrogant and what is ignorant.

Yeah.



Well whats the best thing that can possibly happen? would a one world government, with one law, one faith, one creed, and one purpose be enough?

You know, when ever I think of Americas role in the world..I'm reminded of the old train conductors poem:

I'm not allowed to drive the train
the whistle I cant blow
I'm not allowed to designate
How far the train must go
I'm not allowed to feed the boiler
or even ring the bell
but let the darn thing jump the track
and you'll see who catches h_ll

later

thanks for the replies.. no matter good or bad.


Frankly speaking, I donot feel hope about this conflict. Especially if the current adminstration in USA still run for next 4 years. The stupid guy plus the devil guys around him could be the end of this world. I dnot think they even will try to make a deal with China or do some peace talk at all. When they talk about war or even nuclear war---- I think they are more like kids talking about PC game----I rememberred one congressman (sorry I forget the name) once yelled in 2001 when China hold American surveillance plane : "Nuke China, the best they can do is to only nuke Los Angles" and this motherF**ker's own hometown is somewhere in NY. Yeah, even the two countries begin to throw nukes to each other, they might still hide underground surviving for next 50 years until they naturelly die. but what about us?

American government is too arrogant to let China take back Taiwan cause they think they are the only ones having truth in this planet and having the right to say who shall have what, and Chinese government is too proud to lose the island when Chinese finally can find the national honor which was lost in last 200 painful years. China might be wiped out from this planet, but USA will beome too weak to even survive for another decade. ...So...NK start to nuke Japs, India start to Nuke Parkistan, Israel start to nuke Saudi....Finally there is a guy who start to Nuke Russia. Russia's auto revenge system clear off everything in this world. BOooooom........DEAD END, GAME OVER!---Let's all restart from Africa again---This time let's try black people is the one who liberate white people from being slave You know what---- there are a bunch of alien kids watching us just like what we are watching the PC games.

Human beings never really get smarter during thousands years evolution after they claimed themselves "civilized". History simply repeat itself again and again. We need some key mutations in our gene and our proteins to make our natural evolution become revolution in our brain.

Yes, Bush is not the brightest guy, but he is not stupid enough to nuke anyone. That is political suicide in its self. Do you realize that if we nuke someone, aside from the idiots who cheer that sort of thing on, the sensible prt of the US would do everything possible to get his ass out of office. He would not nuke any, and won't touch hde nor hair of china. Don't be such a radical, that sort of thing is extremel unlikely.

the sensible part of america.....sigh...

When Hitler made almost all Germany fight for him to start WWII, When McCarthy let all American suspect Born-Oppenheimer might be a communist, When China 1 billtion people went through the terrible 10 years culture revolution, Where is the sensible part?? None. Cause the people was brain-washed: "YOU ARE IN GREAT DANGER RIGHT NOW!!! YOU NEED A GREAT LEADER TO GIVE YOU THE DIRECTION TO SURVIVE"

You know how a dicatator want to start his dream to make him like a real emperor in a free world: start from scaring people. When we all get scared enough, we won't complain anything.

When our phone bill, credit cards statement, even our words posted on this website all need to be checked......the sensible part of this country is falling apart.

It is funny cause I left the once-upon-a-time communist country but now I am seeing another commuinst country is being given birth---and right here in the center of free world in the name of freedom.

I think China underestimates Taiwan..
Even if China's PLA landed on Taiwan, they'll get surrounded in no time by Taiwanese forces.
It's not easy to fight in buildup area -- especially in big and complicated city areas in Taiwan.
China may look big on the map compared to Taiwan. But in military power, size of the country doesn't really count.

think China underestimates Taiwan..
Even if China's PLA landed on Taiwan, they'll get surrounded in no time by Taiwanese forces.
It's not easy to fight in buildup area -- especially in big and complicated city areas in Taiwan.
China may look big on the map compared to Taiwan. But in military power, size of the country doesn't really count.

Hmmm, in this case the country in question has a decent military-force. I think they can take taiwan quite easily if it stands alone(once the acctually got their army across the straights, which i dont think they can). But if tyhe US steps in, the Chinese army is in serious trouble.