@Flyingfrog

Flyingfrog,

Taiwan would be independent forever whether on paper or not.
Americans will make big show and message for this.
Seven aircrafts are huge power indeed.
Before, I posted to you about this forces to care.
This is a very serious situation.Again, It is a big message for you.

Flyingfrog, forget Taiwan.
Adding Taiwan to your land is not necessary.
You have also a big land.Take it easy.Right?

lol

your posts are simply amuzing

well, i believe you can talk anything you like nobody can prove it is BS or wrong, because there is no war so we can not judge.

One thing is for sure if war breaks out:
Taiwan will be completely destroyed, so don't underestimate Taiwanese, , they are not stupid as someone may wish

To talk about Taiwan issue, we should have a map of taiwan here

So people may have no clue where to find Taiwan on map




This is fun, the map of Taiwan put there as the dot


China readies for war over Taiwan Strait

Beijing is considering appointing military officers to top posts in Fujian province, which is the nearest to Taiwan

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/eye...257840,00.html

As someone who has lived many years in Taiwan, and studied this country extensively, I can tell you that there is a lot of misinformation by PRC posters, and others, in this thread.

For example:

As for Taiwan, Chinese settlement in Taiwan can be tracked as early as 230 BC according the historical documents, and in 1335 BC the China set up its administration in Taiwan and had the sovereignty of Taiwan. From 1895 to 1945, Taiwan was occupied by Japan by military aggression. Since 1945, Taiwan has again been a part of China, and even though the present US also admit this point and have no doubt!!

These dates, are just plain wrong, as any reading of history texts will tell you. Chinese traders and temporary settlers began arriving in Taiwan in very small numbers only after about 1300AD. Significant migration only occured after Dutch colonisation in the early 17th century. Taiwan became a part of the (Chinese) Qing Dynasty at the end of the 17th century, and remained so until 1895.

The Japanese held sovereignty over Taiwan from 1895 relinquishing it after WW2, but power was never transferred to another Nation. The people of Taiwan at that time were a few non-ethnic Chinese Aborigines and a majortiy population descended from settlers from Southern China (but with a lot of mixed Aborigine blood). The Nationalist KMT took over Taiwan after the Japanese left, and upon loosing the Chinese civil war with the communists, a great number of Northern Chinese settled in Taiwan (making up around 15% of the population). While the KMT government claimed to be the legitimate government of 'China', Taiwan was not a part of the PRC for even one day.

Now Taiwan is a democratic country which no longer claims to govern China. The name is still the Republic of China, as changing the name to Taiwan is recognised as one of the actions that would trigger a war with China. Public opinion in Taiwan is very clear in the fact that the majority of people do not want Taiwan to become part of the PRC, but neither do they want to start a war by declaring independence.

Although Taiwan is unable to declare independence, it is quite obvious that it is an independent country. It elects all its leaders, no other nation receives taxes from it, exercises military contorl over it, shares a currency, shares common laws, has an open immigration policy etc. In no way can Taiwan be called a part of China. That the PRC government wants it to be a part of China does not make it so.

What PLA seems to be missing in airforce capacity they got up-to-date cutting-edge SAM and AA to compensate for as Pen Lung 9 surface to air missiles or state of the art S-300 SAM and russian built SA-15 Gauntlet systems with SA-15B Tor-M1 missiles. That was something Iraq was missing complete in both Desertstorm as in Iraqi Freedom. Then you have Desert terrain vs Chines/Taiwan terrain, and I have read history and can see that the Korean war and the Vietnam war have two things in common.

They both had great number of airforce casualties. And there is a lot of dead young americans. I would not be to self-assured when it comes to the airforce alone ability to win a war like this one. The airwar yes the americans would probaebly win if they can have any planes in the air that is. But a war on the ground? Well there is a big difference there. You would need a coalition two or three times bigger then Desertstorm and that is something I have hard to see US manage on their own in these days.

That is another reason why I don´t think there will be any skirmish between China and US. There would not be sufficent with men to fight a war like that. Well a lot of compulsory military service men then but that would be greater numbers of deaths then americans are ready to loose. It would be a political suicide. And if Nukes would be involved the whole war is death sentence anyway. Pakistan, India, Israel, North Korea, Iran, Russia, lot´s of countries there that would be involved in more nukes and we would live our last days in this world in a state of atomic winter I think. Because every country that has a renegade plan they would start it up. It´s all there in the history books but yes we all also know that humans are kind of a repeating box when it comes to war. They never learn do they?

Cheers:
Doc.S

These dates, are just plain wrong, as any reading of history texts will tell you. Chinese traders and temporary settlers began arriving in Taiwan in very small numbers only after about 1300AD.

BianTai:

The original post claimed 1350 BC, it was just a typo, the guy meant 1350 AD actually

Well, ROC is indeed an independent country, called Republic of China, nothing wrong with it.

Since the people in Taiwan would not choose the direction of declaring independence, so just think about: independent of what? Obviously the CHINA to which they are dependent.

PRC (People's Republic of China)'s idea of ONE CHINA is: Mainland + Taiwan.

Oh yes, ROC (Taiwan) still claims Outer-Mongolia as part of CHINA

One thing just comes up to my mind:
I think USA wil abandon Taiwan when the real war is started.
Just like 25 years USA abandoned their ally Taiwan to choose Communist PRC to establish diplomatic relationship.

If you are really an Ally of some country, you shouldn't abandon them at all. I really doubt what USA's "promise" to Taiwan security. They can abandon you once, then they can abandon you twice.

I just hope people in Taiwan will stay smart now, just make their economy good and have a happy life, don't be used by others like a fool.

Originally Posted by sherman105

It dosent matter. Even if the entire Chinese air-defence will be at the scene(highly unlikly) its not a match to the USAF.

Agree...






"Carlos, Master Terrorist"

Allright...I dont want to go into this again but oh well.....

SAMs are not a good solution for having bearaly-flight-worthy aircraft. Look at the Syrians in 1982. Look at the massive Iraqi system in 1991...All those SAMs are just no good when the other side has B2s and F117s punching holes through the radar cover. The Korea war had high amonts of Airforce casualties because the US fought some of the war with lousy equipment. The USSR sent its best pilots in brand new Mig-15s and gave a good fight...But still the USAF achived a high kill ratio by the end of the war, when the Siber jets came in....Oh, and the USA won...Vietnam is diffrent....Here we have the very first use of massive SAM systems in a war....The americans learned the lessons and now have the trainning and hardware to match modern SAMs.


Anyways, this all dosent matter...The Chinese still cantassamble a big enough fleet to carry the bulk of the Chinese army across the strights. The Chinese cant use their entire army against the US, they might them selves with a very opertuntist Russian Bear crashing down on them....Not to speak of India....They simply are not up to it....We heard all thios talk before 1991..."The Iraqis have the 5th largest army in the world..." "The Iraqi SAMs will bend US air-power....The Mig-29s flown by Iraqi pilots are a match to US F15s..." "SCUDs will rain over Tel-Aviv..."....BS!!!!
The Chinese have a very large, mostly poorley equipped army. They have advanced missiles but poorly trained radar operators, New tanks but a fleet of T55 copies as their main force, great new J10 fighters in small noumbers, backed by Mig-19 and Mig-21 copies...They are yet to mechanise the bulk of their Infantry. THEY ARE NOT UP TO IT.

And, as Flying Frog has mentioned several times, better to make friends then enemies.