China: Superpower already?

I'm just glad to have finally found a thread with people with actual knowledge to share, rather than sensationalist unicultural nonsense (see pages 1 and 2 of this thread).

RAH RAH GO AMERICA WOOOOO!!!! AMERICA IS THE BEST!!!!! WHITE POWER!!!!!


Now that ive ruined your perfect page, onto the topic.

No China is not a technological power, if you look at there accomplishments there at least 30 years behind us.

Were looking at weaponizing space, there looking at just getting a peice of metal up there.
 
Rabs...I advise you read a book called The WOrld is Flat..and it addresses how dangerous it is to make a comment like "CHina and INdia are still far behind and we are fine".

some simple facts listed in the book:
the ratio between the scientists in NASA over 50 years ago and below 30 years old is 10:1.

1/3 of Doctor degrees in U.S were awarded to international or immigrant (mostly asian, particularly Chinese) students

more and more high-tech jobs are OFFSHORED (not outsourced) to China and India because not only cheaper labour cost, but more importantly the quality and quantity of well-educated high-tech labour force there.

While U.S' students ranked bottom on all kinds of acedemic tests internationaly, "we are still ahead 30 years" this kind of comment is not relevant anymore.
 
Stu said:
I'm just glad to have finally found a thread with people with actual knowledge to share, rather than sensationalist unicultural nonsense (see pages 1 and 2 of this thread).

See with your heart not your eyes, without others acceptance of your belief doesn't degrade others thought, the world don't run on your way.
 
Guys lets not get this one dragged down into the mud and locked too... :) please.

Stu I find the fact that China has put a second mission into orbit a bit strange and hard to reconcile with a few facts. First and foremost is that China is still officially considered a "developing" nation by the UN and it receives billions in aid until at least the end of next fiscal year. How is it that one can be considered a "superpower" while still receiving aid? To me this situation regarding the space missions is tantamount to a family on welfare buying a new BMW. Putting men into space is about a couple of things first and foremost the national prestige of China. Face is key here.

However this is just one in many instances where China is truly a society best described as a dichotomy. You have people whizzing by talking on cell phones in their Mercedes Benzs closing business deals while 20 metres away a shoeless farmer ploughs his field with a water buffalo. There are countless people who make ends meet by recycling, dumpster diving in the some of the most vile trash heaps I have ever been exposed to but yet they have to stop and come up for air from time to time to answer their Nokia cell phone. It is truly bizarre.

The saddest part of all is the level of corruption and waste. In the province of Guangdong alone in the last 5 years a government audit has uncovered documented evidence of fraud, corruption and mismanagement that totals over 4 billion USD. THAT is incredible. I shudder to think how much of a difference it would make if it were put to its intended use. In the effort to advance the greed endemic in the population is their own worst enemy.

Source for loss report is on a registered website but I will reproduce it here for those interested to read it.

10 Oct 2005
Guangdong corruption report, activist beating highlight social pressures
State media reported on 10 October that official corruption and mismanagement had cost Guangdong province $4bn during the past five years. On the same day, reports emerged that a leading activist in the province had been severely beaten in Taishi, the village where he was involved in a high-profile campaign to remove an official who was accused of corruption.
The unrelated developments underline well-established trends that threaten social stability. Official corruption has been endemic for years, but increasing levels of rights-awareness and a vast pool of disadvantaged peasants and migrant workers mean that opposition to corruption is now leading to frequent, often large and violent incidents of unrest. Such incidents are common around the country and will continue for the foreseeable future despite Chinese Communist Party (CCP) efforts to tackle the problem. It is no surprise that the official Guangdong corruption report revealed extensive losses through graft. This is a feature of local government around the country that has been well known throughout the reform era, and is a key concern of CCP leaders as they struggle to re-establish a degree of control over lower levels of the system, where corruption is a leading cause of social unrest as well as financial loss.

Corruption and unrest

One means of re-asserting control is by using limited forms of transparency and participation at the local government level to expose local officials to greater accountability. The CCP has been experimenting with political reforms to achieve this in various ‘test’ cases around the country, and will probably extend these in the coming months and years. However, sometimes labelled as ‘democratisation’, such ‘intra-party democracy’ reforms are aimed at strengthening the CCP's rule, and are not designed to open the system to widespread popular participation.

Since late July, developments in Taishi village (in the Panyu district of Guangzhou, in Guangdong) have been closely followed by Chinese political observers as another, more spontaneous ‘test case’ for political freedom. Villagers in Taishi launched a protracted campaign to remove the director of the village committee (an elected official), according to procedures stipulated in the Village Organisation Law. The campaign has featured several tense stand-offs between villagers and local security officials, some scuffles and use of force, the involvement of legal experts supporting the villagers, and considerable media attention (until a clampdown on coverage). The basis of the villagers’ complaints against the director is unclear, but has become largely irrelevant as the more significant issue is the official response.

The high profile of the case means that higher levels of authority have been involved. Initially, officials seem to have allowed the campaign to continue according to procedures. However, fitting the pattern of the thousands of similar – though less publicised – cases around the country in recent years, those identified as leading the protests or providing legal support have been harassed or detained. The beating of the prominent figure in the Taishi protests – local officials probably gave, at the very least, their tacit consent for the attack – is simply the most extreme and highly-publicised aspect of this. While central leaders remain genuinely keen to improve governance and reduce discontent, including through tentative political reforms, effective suppression of dissent will remain the priority for officials as unrest continues to rise.
 
Because of China's population and size, it is not a surprise to me that it is a nation with a rice paddy on one side of the street, farmed by simple folk who live basically on rice and live in not much more than timber huts, yet on the other side of the street a thriving high tech metroplolis is rising sky-ward. Despite the rice paddies, China is now a major world player, with Western Investors (not for the first time) wanting in on the Chinese economic boom. A super-power however, in my estimation, can influence governments, for good or ill, and China is not quite there yet on that score. I believe she will be within 20 years. This will cause fear within the West, and we may have a new arms race, space-race, cold-war. My hope is that Chinese Communism will devolve (can't see it collapsing like Poland, USSR, etc) and eventually disappear. It will thus be less of a threat to the West, unless of course some Chinese leader comes along and wants geo-political expansion (Taiwan first perhaps) then we are looking at WWIII. Western Intelligence agencies would do well to raise China on their lists for observation. I'm no fan of President Clinton, but his policy of peaceful engagement with China seems OK to me, so long as it reminds the Chinese to lift their game on human rights. I know Chinese Christians, clergy, who are in jail - some tortured, for the crime of going to Mass on Sunday (underground)
 
Rabs...I advise you read a book called The WOrld is Flat..and it addresses how dangerous it is to make a comment like "CHina and INdia are still far behind and we are fine".

some simple facts listed in the book:
the ratio between the scientists in NASA over 50 years ago and below 30 years old is 10:1.

1/3 of Doctor degrees in U.S were awarded to international or immigrant (mostly asian, particularly Chinese) students

more and more high-tech jobs are OFFSHORED (not outsourced) to China and India because not only cheaper labour cost, but more importantly the quality and quantity of well-educated high-tech labour force there.

While U.S' students ranked bottom on all kinds of acedemic tests internationaly, "we are still ahead 30 years" this kind of comment is not relevant anymore.

With much not do respect, the thread is titled "Is China a super NOW"

Not will china be a superpwer 20 years from now. They probally will be, i predict a bi-polar world with China in the east and the US in the west.

With that said is china a super power now, no. We put a man on the moon 40 years ago, there just now getting one into orbit.

Granted these figures are a few years old but none the less important

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_pat_grahttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_res_and_dev_per
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_inn
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_exp_hig_techttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_pro_of_pri_edu_tim_spe_lea_sci
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_pro_of_pri_edu_tim_spe_lea_mat

I agree more american students should learn engineering and science. However were still putting out a lot of patents still exporting a lot of high tech gear and still first in a lot of areas. So until the commies can beat us...
 
I just want to say that the U.S. has been around for about 200 years. China has just gained its freedom and unity 60 years ago. They are doing pretty good in catching up to the rest of the world. Considering that they are planning space missions, it is even more amazing.
 
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