China: Superpower already?

I have been to China once last October and I do think they are good but not a super power since they have numerous problems such as milions of poor people ( when I say poor, i mean it) and they have troubles with HIV/AIDS issues every where. Most workers live under the poverty line and the Max salary for a well trained individual is around 200 bucks.

They may be militarily a regional power but they are far from being a super power!
 
Guys, the meaning of superpower totally depends on your defination. As for China, it is not yet a superpower. Give it maybe an extra 70-80 years before it become a serious power. Right now, it is just a developing nation that is trying to improve itself. China right now doesn't want to get involved in any wars and will probably continue to modernize its army for a next couple of decades before it tries challenging other countries.
 
I appreciate people have paid so much attention to my post, but I thought I'd best clarify some of my reasoning..

Stu wrote:
the USA is the last and will hopefully fade out of that position as globalisation forces economic revolution.


Makes me wonder when people say stuff like this, specially those living in a democracy. Did you even stop to think of what the consecounces would be if this were to happpen? It may be the fashoinable thing to hate the US in your country, but what is the reality?

If the US steps down from the scene, someone will fill the vacuum, something always does. What if that power turns out NOT to be a democracy.

Think twice before you route for something like the US going out of the scene to happen. At least with the US you know what you can expect, whithout it who knows what can happen, you have no guarantee that it will turn out good. Do you want China totally dominating Australia, because that would be the most likely scenario if you had your way.
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I'm going to try space myself from hardline Americans who still think the concept of a world policed by one nation actually works. The point I was making was that I hope the US relinquishes its position as a Cold War superpower, extending their military sphere of influences by funding rebellions and military factions in developing nations. The United Nations is already kept in the pocket of the US administration despite the respect given to it by the international community for resolving most global disputes peacefully. America's old enemies in Asia, Africa, South America and Eastern Europe are still alienated towards the influence of the United States on global politics, yet have struck regional cooperation with their neighbouring nations. The world we live in is developing as such that ordinary nations wish to be heard, not ignored. We should be embracing regional communities such as the EU, ASEAN Secretariat etc in attending to their own problems they way they know how.


Stu wrote:
I lived in China for over 11 months last year on a scholarship to study in the north eastern city of Shenyang.


For 11 mths you will not understand much about China, Do you know Shenyang is the Manchu empire before! Do you know Northeast province is the worst part of whole China!Do you know the dark soil in Northeast won't grow plantation!Do you know Northeast is famous for Hooligan!

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In my opinion, China already is and will remain a global power the way one exists in the modern political environment.


Do you know TV was invented by American not China!Do you know light was invented by American not China!Do you know car was invented by American not China!Do you know gun was invented by American not China!Do you know Aeroplane was invented by American not China!Do
you know computer was invented by American not China!More n more..
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nukebomb, Mod edit= Name calling is not acceptable. try make some sense out of your argument before you criticise me. I didnt need to mention Manchuguo in my previous post, and of course I know lot more about their culture than you. Also, if you ask any Chinese, they will laugh at you for saying the North East is the poorest. The south and north western provinces are in poverty, the north east are where the industrial capitals are. I dont think i need bother answering your charade about what americans invented, it has no relevance to this topic. As for the Qing Dynasty, in the 17-1800's European Powers occupied the areas of Guangdong, Shanghai, Tianjin, Hankou, Yunnan, Guangxi, Hainan, and Guangdong, Macau, Dalian, Qingdao, all major trading hubs before and after. And to quote myself, 200 years is longer than anyone could remember except in story tales.

Go get yourself a government education nukebomb.

Guys, the meaning of superpower totally depends on your defination. As for China, it is not yet a superpower. Give it maybe an extra 70-80 years before it become a serious power. Right now, it is just a developing nation that is trying to improve itself. China right now doesn't want to get involved in any wars and will probably continue to modernize its army for a next couple of decades before it tries challenging other countries.
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True and I agree, although the timeframe is a bit long ;)
 
Stu wrote:
I'm going to try space myself from hardline Americans who still think the concept of a world policed by one nation actually works. The point I was making was that I hope the US relinquishes its position as a Cold War superpower, extending their military sphere of influences by funding rebellions and military factions in developing nations. The United Nations is already kept in the pocket of the US administration despite the respect given to it by the international community for resolving most global disputes peacefully. America's old enemies in Asia, Africa, South America and Eastern Europe are still alienated towards the influence of the United States on global politics, yet have struck regional cooperation with their neighbouring nations. The world we live in is developing as such that ordinary nations wish to be heard, not ignored. We should be embracing regional communities such as the EU, ASEAN Secretariat etc in attending to their own problems they way they know how.
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Maybe this place where evereyone coexist in perfect hemogny is nice as far as your daydreams go, but I'm afraid the real world is a different story.

Like I said before if the US withdraws its presence, someone else will eventually fill that position. The stage of world politics does not operate in a vacuum, it never has and it never will. History has proven this time and time again, it will even prove itself over your ideals of how the world should work.

If the US relinquishes its position as a Cold War superpower and stops funding factions in developing nations around the world, then someone else will. And THEY will fund factions and rebellions and who knows what goals they may have, and it may not be good overall world democracy.

If the US tries to use influence on a nation the end goal is to either bring about more democracy, or to keep democracy safe for those that already have it. If the US does not do it, then you can bet some other influnce will go in there whether it is some form of communism, Islamic jihad, or one not condusive to the overall democracy, peace, and safety of the entire world. But who knows maybe youre a communist, or someking of ultra-left wing extremist and you want this to happen.
 
Fair point Gladius. And I agree with a lot of what your saying.

The US has been the defining instrument against global turmoil for the last Century, and perhaps you might compare it to the British Empire or the Romans before. But to know history is to know that the reasons behind such empires dominance was for the benefit of one society at the expense of all opposing others. Whether this be a cynical opinion or not, its a common belief of many in the world. I'm not referring to the radical ignorance of terrorists or extremists who are simply murderers and fit to be exterminated by any justice system, but those who bear resentment of US mistakes in the past.

A US withdrawl of all foreign stations would cause a chain of conflicts around the world, however this course of action is unrealistic and unjustified. However current policy is causing much grief as well as the US is the target of motivated dissent in many spheres.

What I believe would be beneficial to all sides would be the formation of regional councils, overseen by an International security commitee such as the United Nations. While the United Nations already has a peacekeeping force, its biggest test in the new century was overruled by the current political dominatrix. UN inspectors were slandered by the US administration and media after performing a thorough investigation in Iraq and concluding there were no weapons. Yet the US administration concocted their photographic evidence and used the same disproven pretext to commence their invasion. While this is all past and I'm not looking to start more empty criticism on a dead issue, its a relevant consideration.

btw. I'm not a ultra-leftist, communist, non-christian, or boogey man ;)
 
OK folks, please return to the topic at hand: Is China a Superpower? It's easy enough to start another thread instead of wandering off topic here, thank you.
 
I state again, China is not a superpower, but it is a strong nation. There is a difference between a superpower and a strong nation. Currently, China is the latter and is not a threat to the U.S security. In fact, it seems to be cooperating with the U.S. on the Korean nuclear issues.
 
I didnt need to mention Manchuguo in my previous post, and of course I know lot more about their culture than you.
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This was what you said,
As for the Qing Dynasty, in the 17-1800's
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Manchu = Qing, YOU ARE VERY CONTRADITE!!!
Also, if you ask any Chinese, they will laugh at you for saying the North East is the poorest.
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let me tell you if you tell the chinese south and north western provinces are in poverty, they were tell you are wrong, it is north east, they will tell you northwest is developing and northeast had fallen, if you tell the chinese northeast are where the industrial capitals are, they also said you are wrong because Guangdong is most industrialise, let me teach you Mod edit = Name calling is NOT allowed don't ask the chinese.
in the 17-1800's European Powers occupied the areas of Guangdong, Shanghai, Tianjin, Hankou, Yunnan, Guangxi, Hainan, and Guangdong, Macau, Dalian, Qingdao, all major trading hubs before and after. And to quote myself, 200 years is longer than anyone could remember except in story tales.
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Sorry is not the European Power, is the US, British, Russia, Japan, Germany, Portugal, France, Austria whom force the Qing to give away certain portion of territory as to prevent the attack from them.Sorry Hankou = Hainan.Qing Dynasty ended at 1911, ok.

Go get yourself a government education nukebomb.
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Mod edit = Stop the name calling
 
phoenix80 said:
I have been to China once last October and I do think they are good but not a super power since they have numerous problems such as milions of poor people ( when I say poor, i mean it) and they have troubles with HIV/AIDS issues every where. Most workers live under the poverty line and the Max salary for a well trained individual is around 200 bucks.

They may be militarily a regional power but they are far from being a super power!
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in china..things are like 8-10 times cheaper than in Canada.....

like a bottle of Coke...it sells 2 CHInese RMB....but in Canada, it worth like 2.5 Canadian dollar which is like 2.5*7 equals about 18 RMB...

visiting China is always shopping time!!
 
Over three years in China, first two up in the same neck of the woods as Stu (Anshan and Dalian). China is a global superpower in economic terms. As for the military, no. Poor equipment with no maintanence and their training is poor. The military in China exists primarily for doing business. They are still the single largest economic power within this country. Corrupt as the day is long and above the law.

China would not ever be able to project its power until a complete overhaul of its entire system. It is simply not up to the task.

Now, Stu, as you will see from this post, like yours anything that is even slightly critical of China will draw fire. The "loss if face" defies reason and logic. So watch as the Chinese teenagers who have tired of playing CS online now flame me for not extolling the virtues and supremacy of all things Chinese. :roll:
 
"lose of face", sigh...that is where CHina's problem is, always try to cover things up, never really face the problems...

hope things can get better someday

China will become a superpower as long as it does not get involved in any war in next 20-30 years (which is really hard if we look at the situation in Taiwan and Eastern China sea)...
 
economically speaking, China is very capitalistic,

but politically it is still communist, although much freer now, right Bulldog? (sounds like you work in China or something, doing business?)
 
Worms, thank you for proving me wrong and responding in a measured and intellectual way, kudos.

You are correct that when it comes to the market actions on the consumer level it is indeed capitalist. The problem is that at the wholesale and import level there is a great deal of government involvement (ie corrupt officials with hands needing grease) and is not free to react to market forces.

The second problem is that there is no rule of law as the legal system to address corruption and legal infractions is impotent and worthless. This problem coupled with a complete lack of moral guidelines as to ethical behaviour renders the economy to terms of being a jungle free for all where anything goes.

I have seen brother betray brother for money, business partners screw each other out of their legal entitlements and joint ventures get raped by their Chinese counterparts... all with no recourse to set things right.

It is a problem that the central government has finally publickly acknowledged and they plan to reintroduce Confucianism as a "state religion" and guiding principle for acceptable behaviour in this society here.
 
corruption seems to be a part of Chinese culture I think....thus, i believe, a total transformation must not be radical, because it will take generations for Chinese people to adopt the view of rule of the law and democracy
 
The corruption is omnipresent. And historically it has always been present. In fact a couple of political historians have arguied that essentially the actual governance of China, its actual practice, has not changed, only the names and labels of the ideology have changed. This has been labeled the Mao Dynasty and the more I learn of the social history the more this argument seems to hold water.

Worms, I think the change has to be radical in order to sustain growth. Current investors are losing their optimism and investment in China is down. Too many big and small players have been absolutely shivved by the Chinese and the system here. Companies now flat out refuse to enter joint ventures as they are guaranteed to get screwed by their Chinese partners. The legal system reforms are critical to keep China on its path of success. Most companies are now turning to India and Vietnam. The numbers of new factories and firms have increased there while declining in real numbers in China. Almost all of the recent "new" ventures in the Mainland are actually simple relocations of existing operations from Hong Kong to the cheaper labour of the mainland.

China may have been able to put some men into space and get them back alive but they have a long way to go before they can actually project power. From what I have read Washington is quite safe. Even the dozen or so ICBM's they do have have to be kept unfuelled and unarmed due to safety issues regarding the quality and maintenance of the equipment. It wasn't that long ago when my cousin was here working for Loral when a Long March launching one of their satelites went up, leveled off and took out an occupied PLA army barracks just over the hill from the launch site.
 
good point there, I agree that a fundemental change in political system is the key to the rise of China again as a superpower,

however, i dont think this change has to be radical,

china is a big bowl of water, it takes time to warm it up, to make it change

however, it also takes time to cool it down once this bowl of water is boiling and becoming unstable, therefore, every step in the reform has to gradual and careful, eventually, this bowl of water will be warmed up to a suitable temperature,

too radical a change won't solve a lot of problems (India is still full of corruption and backwardness despite many years of democratic practise), and may cause LUAN or chaos, which is what every Chinese learns to fear of.....from the history!!
 
Very philosophical and accurate worms, spot on terminology.

Bulldog your knowledge of the Chinese market is clearly beyond my comprehension, but highly informative.

By the way, quite a development seeing the Chinese on tv in the past few days celebrating their astonauts orbiting the earth. Maybe this will further develop their geo-political sphere? Can you see the Chinese becoming a technological competitor or do you think this was just a stint to try claim their arrival to the world and their own people?

I'm just glad to have finally found a thread with people with actual knowledge to share, rather than sensationalist unicultural nonsense (see pages 1 and 2 of this thread).
 
Stu said:
I'm just glad to have finally found a thread with people with actual knowledge to share, rather than sensationalist unicultural nonsense (see pages 1 and 2 of this thread).
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You know you can leave anytime if the other members are not smart enough or educated enough for you. Must be a pain in the :cen: for you to discuss with most of us.
 
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