China spying on the U.S.?! Lies~!
WarMachine
Active member
Guys, the chinese jet pilot didn't get an order to kill himself in the name of the revolution, it was an accident.
But astral dragon's points on stealing technology or copying it does have validitiy. The only problem is that the PRC is becoming closer to the USA and is therefore going to receive more criticism for these actions and might tone them down in order not to have poor relations with america. I figure china will eventually build its own base after a while and start developing indigenous technologies. That's better in the long run since they can control what they're doing and keep their rivals in the dark.
But astral dragon's points on stealing technology or copying it does have validitiy. The only problem is that the PRC is becoming closer to the USA and is therefore going to receive more criticism for these actions and might tone them down in order not to have poor relations with america. I figure china will eventually build its own base after a while and start developing indigenous technologies. That's better in the long run since they can control what they're doing and keep their rivals in the dark.
ASTRALdragon
Active member
Your point about the Chinese pilot getting an order to kill himself, I agree with that. No self-preserving country would sacrifice a hard-to-train fighter pilot so willingly. Well, maybe Russia... I think it was during the Cold War where their mentality was, "If we can take out an American pilot and only lose one of ours, one to one sounds good because we have a bigger population than they do." I do, however, believe that the pilot was given the order to act a little aggressive so the Americans would think twice next time about flying outside the edge of Chinese airspace. I believe that the Chinese did not like the prospect of sitting idly by as an American spy plane hovers with miles of its airspace conducting surveillance on them. China can't do anything about it because the E-3 was in international airspace, so they decided to send a message of "we know you're there." Air Force reports have shown that Chinese jets that intercepted their planes were aggressive but somehow, this one just hopped the line.
As for your point of the Chinese military getting closer to American technology, well we know how that is... Even Chinese generals and strategists admitted that China was decades behind American technology and the only way they could even the odds were to 1) steal technology by hiring rogue agents or penetrate secure research labs with Chinese nationals under the guise of foreign exchange students or hack the Pentagon computers, or 2) fight in a non-conventional war or as a recent Chinese general put it "assymetrical warfare." Assymetrical warfare would basically be either guerilla tactics (the Chinese know how well that worked against the US in Iraq) and disabling/jamming American satellite communications because the US relies heavily on GPS to track targets, communicate, move logistics, etc (Anyone else read the article in TIME about Chinese space mines and EMP bursts?).
China won't have to worry much about world criticism once they get American technology. Why? Hmm they got the guns, the manpower, and the economy to go solo by that point in time. At least America's population is its limiting factor of going buck wild.
b2ee
Active member
Hi Ad,In fact,many countries ever stole technology from other countries,of cause including the US,France,England and all other big countries. Maybe you can think it shameful things,but it is very normal.
It is easy to understand that there are bottlenecks sometimes in the technology development. At that time,China met many bottlenecks in aviation-technology. It is said that when China experts saw the design and models in the EP3, many confused problems got the answer. Just some block so thin only like a paper, but you must poke it.
Though EP3 has its own self-destruction programme and it did work at that time, China still get much inspiration.
It is easy to understand that there are bottlenecks sometimes in the technology development. At that time,China met many bottlenecks in aviation-technology. It is said that when China experts saw the design and models in the EP3, many confused problems got the answer. Just some block so thin only like a paper, but you must poke it.
Though EP3 has its own self-destruction programme and it did work at that time, China still get much inspiration.
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ASTRALdragon
Active member
I think your definition of "steal" is different than mine. Name at least 3 things that the US or any other Western nation "stole" from another country.
So, your justification of China's technological theft is that because they hit a brain block so it's okay? That's like saying a student is stuck on a question on a test and he is in the right to look at his neighbor's test.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Astral, that's the accepted practice in Chinese public schools from grade one on through PhD.
Honest injun.
ASTRALdragon
Active member
Oh crap... So I guess honor is no longer part of the culture in that region, which is shocking because Asian cultures is built upon honor and "face." Ironic how it would be American schools that stress integrity among educational institutions. Cheat in the wrong class with the wrong professor and your college career in the US is over.
Honest injun.... heheh
b2ee
Active member
For example, You can search many in google yourself.
No,it is two different concepts. What you address is related with individual morality. For one whole country, the interest is the first. Don't think the U.S never steal anything. In fact, Stealing the technology informanton from other countries is one of main tasks for all countries' spies.
Maybe we understand the word completely differently.
some naive.
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ASTRALdragon
Active member
b2ee said:
I just did. I Googled "America steal technology weapons etc." in varying combinations and 2 main things showed up: Chinese stealing American technology and some American Scientific Journal on Technology. Since you are the one claiming that America is notorious for stealing technology, it is YOUR burden to prove your point with links/sources as I did with my topic. If you can't prove your wild claims, I totally understand, but just don't pull accusations from thin air.
b2ee said:
Spying on other countries is a necessity for a country = yes definitely. Stealing technology that is researched and developed by another country (especially military technology) is a necessity for a country = no, well only if your own scientists and engineers are idiots. How about this, just name ONE piece of military technology that America has stolen! ONE! I've done my research and the only 2 topics that stick out in my mind are the Harrier and the MIGs. Both of which America did not "steal." The Harrier project to my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) was originally British. They gave up on it, sold the designs to the US, the US made it better, and resold it back to the British. As for the MIGs, the US saw a threat to their airpower, stole/bought on black market a couple of MIGs and developed their own counter to the MIG threat of the corresponding eras.
WarMachine
Active member
What about all those German technologies the americans gained like the rocket after world war 2? In a sense that's stealing since we took their scientific assets and never gave it back to them.
I think the US doesn't steal much anyway since we have been technology advanced for half a century now and we don't take blueprints from someone else unless we're desperate. China is going through this phase of trying to gain as many advanced technologies as it can while it still can. I know reverse engineering is a problem, but that's only going to get them in hot water since other nations will be fed up with it. I'm guessing china is also doing the same to south korean and japanese technologies, but probably more for the pirated market of consumer goods.
I think the US doesn't steal much anyway since we have been technology advanced for half a century now and we don't take blueprints from someone else unless we're desperate. China is going through this phase of trying to gain as many advanced technologies as it can while it still can. I know reverse engineering is a problem, but that's only going to get them in hot water since other nations will be fed up with it. I'm guessing china is also doing the same to south korean and japanese technologies, but probably more for the pirated market of consumer goods.
ASTRALdragon
Active member
Yea, that's pretty much the reason why Microsoft closed down all of its software firms and manufacturing plants in most parts of Asia because of rampant piracy. I believe the only 2 Asian countries that MSN has plants in are Japan and India. Also, the media industry has also red flagged China as being the piracy capital of the world. A close friend of mine who I play World of Warcraft with resides in China and has informed me that movie DVDs over in China are sold for like $1 to entice people to buy the legit copies and try to force the piracy market out of business.
b2ee
Active member
Hehe, don't think American's everything is better than others',such as the technology of wind power. Based on my knowledge, the US ever stole it from Germany by some famous company. If you can not find the link, I will give it to you,hehe.
Oh,Microsoft? I remember it was ever sued for for allegedly stealing a media transmission technology and using it in Media Player 9.Yes,Microsoft met many piracy problems in Asia,specially in China,but it doesn't mean that it will not steal something from other more advanced companies not of Asia.
Of cause,I don't believe that the American's society is so saint that there is not any crime for stealing technology. Do you think you are living really in Paradise?!
In fact, the discussion is simple. Piracy problem is in the scope of economic problem more and "steal technology as a reference and get useful illumination from it" is in the scope of national interest more.
It 's not my purpose to advocate stealing. Just what I said,it's two concepts which are used in different scopes.
Oh,Microsoft? I remember it was ever sued for for allegedly stealing a media transmission technology and using it in Media Player 9.Yes,Microsoft met many piracy problems in Asia,specially in China,but it doesn't mean that it will not steal something from other more advanced companies not of Asia.
Of cause,I don't believe that the American's society is so saint that there is not any crime for stealing technology. Do you think you are living really in Paradise?!
In fact, the discussion is simple. Piracy problem is in the scope of economic problem more and "steal technology as a reference and get useful illumination from it" is in the scope of national interest more.
It 's not my purpose to advocate stealing. Just what I said,it's two concepts which are used in different scopes.
Red China? I don't think China is still "purely red'. Please don't observe China in the old view. Hehe,maybe the current China is worse in your view.
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ASTRALdragon
Active member
b2ee said:
You're going off on a tangent a bit here. I was purely speaking of stealing military technology which can be used to harm others. I am aware of that issue where the American company Kenetech Windpower Inc. allegedly duplicated the wind turbine technology from the German company Echelon and released a version of it in the US before Echelelon could patent its design in the US, however, this is farcry from stealing military technology or obtaining it from rogue agents. If the US were to even steal this technology (Kenetech Inc. is no longer in business), at least it would be used towards good (energy conservation). I don't see how China obtaining F-16 engines and air-launched nuclear missiles could be a benefit to any civilized nation.
b2ee said:
If I remember correctly, it was alleged but never proven that Microsoft used source codes from a different media player to create their own Media Player 9. MSN settled out of court and agreed to bundle Windows sold in Europe with an option to not include Windows Media Player. Keep an eye out this coming year when Windows Vista is released. European versions will come with an "N" version for every normal version that is released. The "N" version is basically the version that does not include Windows Media Player.
As a person who currently works in the field of computers, using source codes from another program is a gray region. Software engineers change companies all the time and with computer programming evolving everyday, the chances of a person thinking of the same type of program another person is, is very likely. Software engineers share ideas via online forums all the time so it's likely that some ideas might mix.
b2ee said:
No nation is "Paradise" but the US seems to respect intellectual property more than China does.
b2ee said:
So, what you're saying is that it's okay for a inferior nation to steal military technology from a superior nation to progress itself?
b2ee said:
I think he means a China gripped in the iron clutches of the totalitarian Chinese Communist Party.
Donkey
Active member
Yes I do....
Why because we have bikini clad blondes, NASCAR, guns, money, Budweiser, pizza, Grilling, Football (the real one), SUVs, and everyone has a problem with us...which means we are doing something right
Plus it has to be a real kick in the junk when the youngest country is the most powerful....hehehe
:drunkb:
WNxRogue
Active member
Actually, china is not totalitarian. A totalitarian government is defined as "a government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control" Since china does not exercise ABSOLUTE control, it is not totalitarian.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=totalitarian
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
Until the citizens of the People's Republic of China can go out in the streets and express whatever they truly think about anything without the fear of being taking away at night by the secert police placed in a gulag to die.
Red China is still gripped in the iron clutches of the totalitarian Chinese Communist Party.
Totalitarianism, Communism, Socialism, and Facism are all curses on society. The only cure is freedom.
God Bless the USA!
Red China is still gripped in the iron clutches of the totalitarian Chinese Communist Party.
Totalitarianism, Communism, Socialism, and Facism are all curses on society. The only cure is freedom.
God Bless the USA!