bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
They're making an example... the bigger the stink in the media over this the more successful their move is. The Chinese government is many things but stupid is not one of them.
China Confiscates Bibles From American Christians
mmarsh
Active member
Totally Agree, I wish we could do they same.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Which is the reason why I don't go to Church.
As for the anti-religion thing... remember that people will always have some kind of ideology. Personally I'd rather have one that gives the message of being a good person, not doing any bad stuff (10 commandments serves as a rough guide) and forgiving others than one that is totally about getting more seats in the senate and blindly backing an individual to become the President because of party affiliation.
Religion is a deeply personal thing and I don't think that anything of that nature can truly be understood by us. Until that day, we can listen to the CORE messages which have been good.
The instant religion becomes an organization like we see in many areas now, it loses its significance. It becomes some kind of competition over each other... Churches fight over turf, try converting aggressively (so much for love and understanding)... and I HATE it when they go door to door to convert.
I think, if done right, religion is a great thing. It's a belief system that tells us to do the good things. Done wrong, there probably isn't a bigger pain in the ass. Fortunately, for many it's a personal thing. Unfortunately the pain in the ass types grab all the headlines.
Many people take the whole thing about right and wrong for granted when in fact religion probably played a big role in shaping our beliefs on right and wrong and morals. Whether or not you believe in a religion is besides the point. It's precisely why in America at least the theme of right and wrong is so important, whereas with the Chinese (whose religions were mostly Confucianism and Communism) it is less important as is profit, wealth and social success.
Not telling you to go to Church, actually at this point I discourage it, but what I say is don't throw religion completely out the window because when it comes to the shooting and killing involved with religion, it is simply playing the role of one of many ideologies (be it religious, political, new age, whatever) that are in this world.
As for the Bibles, there have been underground Christian movements in China for over a century now. They're just restocking their shelves.
And the official Chinese religion is Communism. So don't get too excited.
As for the anti-religion thing... remember that people will always have some kind of ideology. Personally I'd rather have one that gives the message of being a good person, not doing any bad stuff (10 commandments serves as a rough guide) and forgiving others than one that is totally about getting more seats in the senate and blindly backing an individual to become the President because of party affiliation.
Religion is a deeply personal thing and I don't think that anything of that nature can truly be understood by us. Until that day, we can listen to the CORE messages which have been good.
The instant religion becomes an organization like we see in many areas now, it loses its significance. It becomes some kind of competition over each other... Churches fight over turf, try converting aggressively (so much for love and understanding)... and I HATE it when they go door to door to convert.
I think, if done right, religion is a great thing. It's a belief system that tells us to do the good things. Done wrong, there probably isn't a bigger pain in the ass. Fortunately, for many it's a personal thing. Unfortunately the pain in the ass types grab all the headlines.
Many people take the whole thing about right and wrong for granted when in fact religion probably played a big role in shaping our beliefs on right and wrong and morals. Whether or not you believe in a religion is besides the point. It's precisely why in America at least the theme of right and wrong is so important, whereas with the Chinese (whose religions were mostly Confucianism and Communism) it is less important as is profit, wealth and social success.
Not telling you to go to Church, actually at this point I discourage it, but what I say is don't throw religion completely out the window because when it comes to the shooting and killing involved with religion, it is simply playing the role of one of many ideologies (be it religious, political, new age, whatever) that are in this world.
As for the Bibles, there have been underground Christian movements in China for over a century now. They're just restocking their shelves.
And the official Chinese religion is Communism. So don't get too excited.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
There was a time where I thought this was true, the bible gives us rules to live by and shapes our values and then I discovered something all of these "commandments" were in effect and had existed through out the "civilised world centuries before the current mainstream religions even existed. Minoans, Greeks, Egyptians, Romans even Persians all had these values.
Umm the Chinese government officially describes itself as athiest which when you think about it is fairly close to most countries who try and maintain a separation of church and state.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Excellent point. My views exactly.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Most religions, those current and extinct have some very similar commonalities. Heck, who knows, our different religions could be very similar messages sent on a different medium. Buddhism and Confucianism seem to be the ones who differ significantly so I'm not sure about that but as for the rest, they seem to have a lot in common. The Romans, Minoans, Greeks etc, had these values as well, but they also had religion. Heck, people probably started getting bits and pieces of the message and felt the need to paste it on the walls of caves.
Truth is monotheistic and polytheistic isn't that big of a difference as many believers in polytheistic religions believe that it's just the many forms of a single deity.
The Chinese can call themselves whatever they want. Even North Korea is atheist but everyone knows their religion is Juche and their gods are Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il. Communism is the Chinese state religion. It's like a hard core Christian calling himself "not religious" because he feels that everything he is believing in is not "religious" but is the obvious and absolute truth.
I don't think any one of us can definitively say enough about religion to go around stabbing and shooting people about it but those characters are simply using a powerful thing for bad uses. If religion didn't exist, these characters would simply find another substitute that works just as well.
And like I said, most of those Bibles are probably for the ones who believe anyway but don't have copies of Bibles. Bibles make pretty lousy recruiting tools. I don't feel offended if someone gave me a book about their faith. Actually we have a copy of the Koran somewhere. So what?
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Indeed but I am prepared to bet that many people believe that their national laws are based on Christian doctrine when in reality there is nothing especially Christian about laws against murder, stealing etc. they were already enshrined in the psyche of mankind well before anyone thought of Christianity.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yes I know. And Christianity is the medium in which I choose to believe in things. I don't claim the Church invented these values.
My point is, the instant people had questions there was religion. Religion is probably as old as human thought itself. It has done many good things. Unfortunately only the bad make the headlines. And I don't think there should be powerful churches. Gatherings of any kind should be done the way many clubs do. Certainly should have no political power.
My point is, the instant people had questions there was religion. Religion is probably as old as human thought itself. It has done many good things. Unfortunately only the bad make the headlines. And I don't think there should be powerful churches. Gatherings of any kind should be done the way many clubs do. Certainly should have no political power.
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