Is China Better off just letting Taiwan go and do whatever?? - Page 7




View Poll Results :Would China be better off if Taiwan were a recognized Independent Country??
Yes, Absolutely! 9 33.33%
Maybe they would... 5 18.52%
No, Definitely Not! 12 44.44%
Other (please explain) 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

 
--
Boots
 
December 1st, 2004  
Snauhi
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
Why is Taiwan so important to you? Where do you need it? We got our own "Taiwan" on Baltic sea, Ahvenanmaa (or Åland in swedish), an autonomical island between Finland and Sweden. They got their own flag, own currency, own culture, own economy, own goverment etc. If Ahvenanmaa would like to declare independent, i wouldn't care less. It is not a matter of somekind of nationalism or pride or something. They got their freedom to choose and decide themselves. It's called democracy. 8)
Yes but China is not democrate country.
December 1st, 2004  
EuroSpike
 
"Yes but China is not democrate country."

I just don't understand the Taiwan's importance or actually imagined importance to China.

Just letting Taiwan go would bring internationally only positive PR for China.
December 1st, 2004  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak88
there brings me the issue of old nationlistic vetereans and their offsprings*( sry, i was studing bio)

Many people in taiwan wanted to unite with china, its true but is overshadowed by the mass of young taiwanese who wanted independence and have it their own way... say 49% wanted independence and 51% wanted independence, then it is really unfair to those who wanted to reunite. My point is not everybody in taiwan wated to seperate and that democratic votes arent as fair as it seem
Actually, it's not that close. Most people fear China's military, therefore they'd rather keep the status quo. In 2004's election, even the KMT is no longer using the "unification" campaign. The situation in Taiwan could probably be best described as 50% want independence right now, while 50% want to keep it the way things are because a change will probably cause a cross-strait war. This is an idea that I think has not set in for mainland Chinese yet. Not that 50% of the Taiwanese want to unite with China, they just fear independence and its implications.
--
Boots
December 1st, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
Actually, it's not that close. Most people fear China's military, therefore they'd rather keep the status quo. In 2004's election, even the KMT is no longer using the "unification" campaign. The situation in Taiwan could probably be best described as 50% want independence right now, while 50% want to keep it the way things are because a change will probably cause a cross-strait war. This is an idea that I think has not set in for mainland Chinese yet. Not that 50% of the Taiwanese want to unite with China, they just fear independence and its implications.
I believe what you said is true, we know it actually.

If you go to Mainland Chinese forums, they are actually talking about nuking taiwan to stone-age (sorry, this is what they said there), since the taiwanese don't treat themselves as Chinese brothers at all, why should PLA show mercy to them then? What do you think about this? I bet the relationship btw Mainland and Taiwan is getting worse everyday, maybe soon a lot of ppl in taiwan will die because of possible bloody war, of course I hope no war, everybody happy.
December 1st, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Nuking Taiwan into oblivion is exactly the same mentality as a husband who, when confronted with divorce, kills his wife. Its pure nonsense, but the PRC media has worked so hard at demonizing the Taiwanese and their point of view that the people living in the PRC can't likely be expected to acknowledge that its wrong to exterminate several million people on a whim. Taiwanese apparently have become this evil group of people (with horns and tails most likely) that are somehow or another infringing upon the rights of the people of China. It doesn't make sense to me, especially as an attempt to justify giant-scale mass murder.

I'm sorry, but the parallel is just to accurate -- that's exactly the sort of demonization that Nazi Germany employed to justify the extermination of the Jews.
December 1st, 2004  
Kane
 
Quote:
If you go to Mainland Chinese forums, they are actually talking about nuking taiwan to stone-age (sorry, this is what they said there), since the taiwanese don't treat themselves as Chinese brothers at all, why should PLA show mercy to them then? What do you think about this? I bet the relationship btw Mainland and Taiwan is getting worse everyday, maybe soon a lot of ppl in taiwan will die because of possible bloody war, of course I hope no war, everybody happy.
The question remains, how to prevent a war? Hope that CSB steps down from office? Opening a dialouge? Have any ideas how to solve this issue without exploiting the other?
December 1st, 2004  
Kane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Nuking Taiwan into oblivion is exactly the same mentality as a husband who, when confronted with divorce, kills his wife. Its pure nonsense, but the PRC media has worked so hard at demonizing the Taiwanese and their point of view that the people living in the PRC can't likely be expected to acknowledge that its wrong to exterminate several million people on a whim. Taiwanese apparently have become this evil group of people (with horns and tails most likely) that are somehow or another infringing upon the rights of the people of China. It doesn't make sense to me, especially as an attempt to justify giant-scale mass murder.

I'm sorry, but the parallel is just to accurate -- that's exactly the sort of demonization that Nazi Germany employed to justify the extermination of the Jews.
Seriously Godofthunder9010 you better halt on your bitter comparisons. Are you trying to say that PRC are Nazis and Taiwanese are Jews? To tell you the truth, no one is right in this. Taiwanese nationals hate Mainland Chinese, Mainland Chinese hate Taiwanese because of political reasons. It is both of them who is choking each other to death. The only victims in this crisis are the people who want mutual friendship and peace.
December 1st, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
The question remains, how to prevent a war? Hope that CSB steps down from office? Opening a dialouge? Have any ideas how to solve this issue without exploiting the other?
Why don't they consider the "one country 2 systems" proposal?

PRC's proposal is:
After unification:
1. Taiwan be completely independent economically and militarily.
2. PRC will NOT send one single officier to Taiwan, Taiwan keeps her government as they have now.
3. Taiwan keeps her Army too.

PRC ONLY wants Taiwan to admit Taiwan is part of Chinese territory, nothing more.

Then someone tell me, what can PRC do MORE?
Being so nice, still not satisfied, then I say they ask TOO much.
If don't listen to the good will, hel, let's meet in the bloody war, then happy?
December 1st, 2004  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFrog
I believe what you said is true, we know it actually.

If you go to Mainland Chinese forums, they are actually talking about nuking taiwan to stone-age (sorry, this is what they said there), since the taiwanese don't treat themselves as Chinese brothers at all, why should PLA show mercy to them then? What do you think about this? I bet the relationship btw Mainland and Taiwan is getting worse everyday, maybe soon a lot of ppl in taiwan will die because of possible bloody war, of course I hope no war, everybody happy.
I am engaged to a Chinese girl from Ningbo, she is the sweetest person on earth. I have no doubt that people on both sides of the strait are capable of life in peace and harmony.

With that said, I got to say that I feel lucky the PLA is not commanded by those raging berserkers you mentioned, or I won't be safe anywhere, be it Taiwan or the US! :P I am actually interested in finding out why they believe so strongly that we are brothers, care to provide a link? I have trouble reading simplified Chinese but I think I can manage. Anyway, those people cannot be more wrong, we are not your brothers, you want us to be your brothers and we refuse to, which you think is a good enough reason to come kill us. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You want something to be true, so it has to be true; otherwise it must be wrong. Is it not what the whole thing is all about? This is why China is viewed as the region's super bully.

And it's obvious those people don't view us as brothers, do you kill your brother for wanting to move out? Why contradict yourself? You just want to find a glorified reason to invade Taiwan, we understand. You are not fooling anyone but yourself, you know? But I guess whatever helps them sleep at nights works.

Well, regardless of how small Taiwan is compared to China, every war has a price. Both sides need to be ready for the consequences. Bloody war means people would die, but not only the Taiwanese. I hope there's no war though, no matter what happens.
December 1st, 2004  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFrog

Why don't they consider the "one country 2 systems" proposal?

PRC's proposal is:
After unification:
1. Taiwan be completely independent economically and militarily.
2. PRC will NOT send one single officier to Taiwan, Taiwan keeps her government as they have now.
3. Taiwan keeps her Army too.

PRC ONLY wants Taiwan to admit Taiwan is part of Chinese territory, nothing more.

Then someone tell me, what can PRC do MORE?
Being so nice, still not satisfied, then I say they ask TOO much.
If don't listen to the good will, hel, let's meet in the bloody war, then happy?
Funny thing is, things are that way after TI too, so why does PRC ONLY want Taiwan to admit Taiwan is part of Chinese territory? The offer is kind of like, yo, I'll let you have whatever you own now, but you must admit that everything is mine first. You think they are being as nice as they can be? And Taiwan is asking too much? Try being on Taiwan's side for a day, then claim that "China is being so nice to me, I should appreciate it". Really, then see how unreasonable China really is.