Censorship!

I can't see any good reason to censor porn. I find it disturbing that Americans are content to give their kids movies and games chock full of extreme brutality but are afraid of the very mentioning of sex. Everyone has sex, but most people don't stab someone to death. One of my friends' parent let him watch slasher movies and such as a little kid, and he really believed they depicted every day normal occurrences until he got old enough to know otherwise.
So, I take it that because kids are allowed violent games, you feel we may as well "ice the cake" with porn?

You've got me beat,... I really don't know how your thought processes work. I guess if you accidentally broke one of your partners treasured possessions, you would feel that it's logical to go ahead and destroy all of their other possessions.

There are many documented cases where violent games and porn etc have been linked to excessive violence and murder. It is particularly known to disassociate kids from reality. I agree, these things do not affect everyone this way, but it has enough impact to make it undesireable and therefore needs controlling.
 
There are many documented cases where violent games and porn etc have been linked to excessive violence and murder. It is particularly known to disassociate kids from reality. I agree, these things do not affect everyone this way, but it has enough impact to make it undesireable and therefore needs controlling.

And that should go right back to the parents,idealy, if we teach our children that a violent game is just a game, and NOT accetable in real life, then they wouldn't do it, but thats in ideal conditions, all we can do nowdays is try our best.
 
And that should go right back to the parents,idealy, if we teach our children that a violent game is just a game, and NOT accetable in real life, then they wouldn't do it, but thats in ideal conditions, all we can do nowdays is try our best.
It is the responsiblillity of parents, but as we have seen, not all parents are responsible, neither are they able to be with their kids every hour of the day. So to keep kids (and adults) from temptation, we have things like censorship.

it's a pretty simple concept really.

In a perfect world we would not have bar tenders, people should be able to be trusted to serve themselves and put the money in the till, but humans being what they are, it just doesn't work.
 
It is the responsiblillity of parents, but as we have seen, not all parents are responsible, neither are they able to be with their kids every hour of the day. So to keep kids (and adults) from temptation, we have things like censorship.

it's a pretty simple concept really.

In a perfect world we would not have bar tenders, people should be able to be trusted to serve themselves and put the money in the till, but humans being what they are, it just doesn't work.


I totally agree with you, I can't argue that we don't have censorship, and I can't argue that some people shouldn't have kids. But I DO believe that at least ONE parent should be able to remain home to raise children properly, but I also know that will never happen again in this world. but for me and my house my idea of no censorship does in fact work, I put a keyloger on my oldest sons computer last week just to check up on what he does late at night when his door is shut, I'm so proud of him, he has so far done nothing that violates the morals and things I have taught him. My youngest just plays outside until he goes to bed, he couldn't care less about a computer.
I will never like censorship, and I will always be an advocate against it, until the censors get a grip and censor what needs to be censored and not a Bugs Bunny cartoon, You know a person can find any form of porn, adult or child on the internet?, But try finding the complete Buggs Bunny Cartoons and tell me how it works out. I believe teh porn should be removed and the cartoons should be freely available.
 
I totally agree with you, I can't argue that we don't have censorship, and I can't argue that some people shouldn't have kids. But I DO believe that at least ONE parent should be able to remain home to raise children properly, but I also know that will never happen again in this world. but for me and my house my idea of no censorship does in fact work, I put a keyloger on my oldest sons computer last week just to check up on what he does late at night when his door is shut, I'm so proud of him, he has so far done nothing that violates the morals and things I have taught him. My youngest just plays outside until he goes to bed, he couldn't care less about a computer.
I will never like censorship, and I will always be an advocate against it, until the censors get a grip and censor what needs to be censored and not a Bugs Bunny cartoon, You know a person can find any form of porn, adult or child on the internet?, But try finding the complete Buggs Bunny Cartoons and tell me how it works out. I believe teh porn should be removed and the cartoons should be freely available.
What you say is OK in a perfect world,... but until then we'll always need some forms of censorship and social regulation. The alternative is anarchy.
 
I think the point he's trying to make is that kids aren't as innocent as one may think.
So you also think that this is a reason to not control other "vices"?

I'm sure I know exactly what he's getting at,... we all know kids aren't innocent, you seem to forget, we were all kids once too and our memories may be selective, but they are not that short. This seems to be a major failing in the thought processes of or younger generations,... all of them, since time immemorial. They seem to feel that they are the first to be smarter than their predecessors. Only very, very rarely are they right.

The enthusiasm and guile of youth, is no match for the practical experience of a longer lifetime.
 
So you also think that this is a reason to not control other "vices"?

I'm sure I know exactly what he's getting at,... we all know kids aren't innocent, you seem to forget, we were all kids once too and our memories may be selective, but they are not that short. This seems to be a major failing in the thought processes of or younger generations,... all of them, since time immemorial. They seem to feel that they are the first to be smarter than their predecessors. Only very, very rarely are they right.

The enthusiasm and guile of youth, is no match for the practical experience of a longer lifetime.
The same goes for the parents. They forget that the blocks on what their kids see/hear as teenagers are the same ones they so artfully avoided 30 years prior.

Less repression, more education, I say.
 
As I pointed out earlier, That would be great in a perfect world, but until then we have to rely on what works best for us.

Like bar tenders and Police officers, censorship is just another necessary evil.

Because we can't always stop something, is no reason to just give up trying.
 
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The trouble being that your "boat" has no bottom.

These solutions are in place, not because they are easy or popular, but because they are necessary knowing human nature to be what it is. Education has already played it's part,... we have learnt that the available options don't solve the problem.
 
The trouble being that your "boat" has no bottom.

These solutions are in place, not because they are easy or popular, but because they are necessary knowing human nature to be what it is. Education has already played it's part,... we have learnt that the available options don't solve the problem.
Well, sure, if you present swimming across as the only option, which is what is being done here. Teenagers, like you said, get the idea they're the first to be smarter than predecessors and think they've found another way, even if their other way may be incorrect. But what do they know? They weren't told.

The best way to treat a teenager is like an adult, he'll be more likely to listen. If you tell him it's your way or the highway, the last thing he's going to do is listen to you. If you tell him all sides, don't forbid but advise, he'll listen. Guide, don't force.
 
You're just going around in circles, talking like it's never been tried before. It has,... and it doesn't work as well as censorship, for all the reasons already discussed. Your argument has all the logic and appeal of the age old kids favourite argument,... "all the other kids are doing it".

Sorry, we've all been down that track before. The simple fact is, that some people just don't want to obey the laws and don't want to be educated and guided or advised, a bit like this argument. They'll do absolutely anything to avoid the obvious solution.
 
You're just going around in circles, talking like it's never been tried before. It has,... and it doesn't work as well as censorship, for all the reasons already discussed. Your argument has all the logic and appeal of the age old kids favourite argument,... "all the other kids are doing it".

Sorry, we've all been down that track before. The simple fact is, that some people just don't want to obey the laws and don't want to be educated and guided or advised, a bit like this argument. They'll do absolutely anything to avoid the obvious solution.
Once again the smart will be punished because the stupid won't learn. And it's not like the stupid won't just ignore the censors and find another way anyway. The censor solves nothing.

And how does my argument equate with your first paragraph in the least?
 
When I was a little kid there was no greater motivation for me to try and find out about something than people trying to keep me from it. Censorship is a mistake, the truth always comes out in the right place. I cannot see myself snooping with a keylogger. I really don't want to know. I have far too much respect for privacy to do something like that to a loved one and live with myself.
 
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Once again the smart will be punished because the stupid won't learn.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the those "smart" people that you so eagerly quote, aren't perhaps nearly as smart as they think they are? It's certainly not punishing me i guess that's because I'm not "smart".
And it's not like the stupid won't just ignore the censors and find another way anyway. The censor solves nothing.
Well, if it's achieving nothing, you have nothing to worry about have you?

And how does my argument equate with your first paragraph in the least?
Read it again, I can't see how you could not possibly see the connection.
When I was a little kid there was no greater motivation for me to try and find out about something than people trying to keep me from it. Censorship is a mistake, the truth always comes out in the right place. I cannot see myself snooping with a keylogger. I really don't want to know. I have far too much respect for privacy to do something like that to a loved one and live with myself.
That is the reason why you were a little kid, you were immature. What they are advocating here is not just verbally forbidding you access, but removing the temptation. So, no matter how much you wanted to look at it, it's not there to see.
 
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Only those getting prosecuted for possessing lewd images of THEMSELVES.
But why would you wish to display lewd images of yourself in a public library where it's accessible to children. Which is what this case is all about. It sounds a bit like grooming for paedophilia to me.

The law works,and it works well for the majority, that's what it's all about.
 
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When I was a little kid there was no greater motivation for me to try and find out about something than people trying to keep me from it. Censorship is a mistake, the truth always comes out in the right place. I cannot see myself snooping with a keylogger. I really don't want to know. I have far too much respect for privacy to do something like that to a loved one and live with myself.

That's why I took off the key logger. I found out I don;t need it
 
What you say is OK in a perfect world,... but until then we'll always need some forms of censorship and social regulation. The alternative is anarchy.


But after the health care and climate summit are done aren't we going to have e a perfect world?
 
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