Cancerous Remnants of the Clinton Era
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
There is no law and no mandate from any organisation in the world that lays the responsibility for the safety of all people's upon ythe shoulders of the USA. In point of fact more often than not when we do act we are roundly criticised for it. It is about time the rest of the world suck it up and put their money where their mouth is and quit blaming us when we do something and blaming us when we dont. I am sick and :cen:ing tired of the blame coming from countries who sat idly by and did nothing as well. Why the fark didn't YOU do something about it?!?
PJ24
Active member
Mmarsh said:
I think you mean ANWAR.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Lessons of first WTC bombing
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9126/
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/focus/terrorism/archives/1001/e05binladen.html
I can go on and on providing links. I will not post classified sources on an open site.
I'll be willing to conceed to some of your points concerning there being no hard definite proven connection on this one, though.
All I said was your claim was incorrect. There's actually supporting documents for both arguments. The 9/11 commission decided that at this time, there was not enough hard evidence to support the claim. So, is there real proof? Yes, just not enough to counter the opposite claim's side.
Regardless, the offer the Sudan made was unacceptable. One of the few things Clinton did right was not pressing the issue with the Saudis.
You said:
Then you went on to say:
Take note of what I've placed in bold underline.
You may want to pay attention to everything you say. I do find it funny how you chose only to focus on part of what you said, and not the other claim that I underlined. You must have known that's what I was referring to. I didn't need luck, just your own words and statements.
You seem to prescribe to the idea that "two wrongs make a right." You are not excused from your erroneous and bias claims just because a media agency has done it. If anything, I hold individuals (like yourself) to a far higher standard than media stooges. I expect them to spin things. That isn't how it should be, but that's how it is.
Oh, I see. *I* misunderstood. Silly me. I saw "PJ24," and then ensuing comments. Crazy me for taking your post for exactly how it was presented! :mrgreen: Next time, it would be a good idea, like I said, not to specifically address me if you are also referring to others posts.
Ah, so then you're all for micromanaging and tying the military's hands by requiring we run all swiftly changing strategies and tactics through White House civilians? Huh, and not long ago I recall you supporting some Generals that were complaining about exactly that. My how our opinions change to suit the discussion.
There are men on here, like myself, with a lot of first hand experience in the US and other militaries. We also have first hand experience in a lot of the former and ongoing operations in the current war.
Now, I know what we might say is shit to high sitting know it all civilians that never spent one single day on the two way range (media), but hey, we're here to share our experiences and opinions too.
Whether or not you choose to see that for exactly what it is, well, that's up to you. I'll never write a book or a news article, but I'll share what I am allowed on here based on my firsthand experiences to help those that are interested get perspective. If you choose not to believe it and/or acknowledge it, so be it.
Before you make comments like "the ball was dropped at Tora Bora" you should do some actual research into the operation. You have already proven you have ZERO actual knowledge of how military operations are planned and executed. You show ZERO understanding of the reality of military operations. Yet, you feel qualified to make comments like "Bush lost Bin Laden at Tora Bora", simply because you hate Bush. You're doing exactly what you complain FOX news did to Clinton.
Frankly, you come across as pretty partisan to me (esp with that shot you took at Republicans in your post). I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, and I have never been one to become emotionally invested in ANY politician. It isn't my job to kiss up to them or kow tow party lines, it's my job to keep an eye on them and make sure they're doing exactly what I elected them to do. I can't do that if I'm playing favorites by party. My job limits what I am allowed to say, but it doesn't stop me from writing my congressmen (whether they be democrats or republicans) on issues I find important.
So, I really don't have anything to lose or gain by telling why there were f**k ups during Op. Anaconda. You can blame Bush for a lot of things, that ain't one of 'em.
If you wanted to make an accurate statement about Op. Anaconda, what you should have said instead of Bush was "CENTCOM."
I'll suggest two books for you to read, in case you actually are interested in Op. Anaconda (outside of the rhetoric). Each offer a different perspective to the operation, and both have a differing opinion when it comes to Bin Laden's location, but both will clearly state our problems were with the large egos located with in the walls of the Pentagon, CENTCOM and another agency. They're not without bias, especially the second one, but if you read them and gleen the facts, they'll give you a good picture of how difficult things were made for those of us that were on the ground.
Not A Good Day To Die: The Untold Story Of Operation Anaconda By Sean Naylor
Jawbreaker : The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander By Gary Berntsen
It may not bother you, but I lost friends there over a lot of trivial infighting, so it sure as hell bothers me.
Alright buddy, this one tired me out, so I'll catch you in a few more responses. lol :thumb:
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phoenix80 said:
Who says so? There are rules about singlehandedly interfering in domestic troubles. And the cold, hard truth about Rwanda is that nobody gave a toss whether Tutsi's killed Hutu's or Hutu's killed Tutsi's are any combination you can think of. If you read the literature about Africa you'll find the term "Lost Continent". This is the western opinion, regardless of right or left views in the political spectrum
PJ24 said:
True! Combine that with the loss of an entire "economic productive" generation due to HIV and Aids, loyalty first a foremost to tribal relations, a hopeless perspective for the educational system, analphabtism around 60 to 70%, total lack of economic stability, predatory governments and the relocation of the capital about every decade..... well, you get the picture!
mmarsh
Active member
PJ24
No Damien got it, its RWANDA spelled backwards. You win a cigar Damien.
I read your post, I think I have figured out the difference between you and I, which explains why we don't agree.
You hold people to the same standard or higher standards than the media. I am just the opposite. I hold the Media to a higher standard so that non informed people (such as you and I) can base their opinions. Now I agree that all media contains a certain level of bias opinion, but intentionally rewriting history and reporting it as fact is simply propaganda, and that I have no tolerence for, leftwing or rightwing press.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
No Damien got it, its RWANDA spelled backwards. You win a cigar Damien.
I read your post, I think I have figured out the difference between you and I, which explains why we don't agree.
You hold people to the same standard or higher standards than the media. I am just the opposite. I hold the Media to a higher standard so that non informed people (such as you and I) can base their opinions. Now I agree that all media contains a certain level of bias opinion, but intentionally rewriting history and reporting it as fact is simply propaganda, and that I have no tolerence for, leftwing or rightwing press.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
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phoenix80 said:
Wow, I reckon this is the first time I sense some underlaying communism. This was the exact reason the commies in Latin America said they were underdeveloped. This theoretical thinking is called Dependencia and was mainly developed by Prebisch, a socialist to say the least and also a mr. Baroso, a known communist.
Nowadays we also take the bad government, corruption, tribal war etc. into account. Sure we gave them a very poor start, but we made amends with loans and other help. Much of the poor situation is owed to themselves.
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Rob Henderson
Banned
Phoenix do you hate Europeans? In your message in "Flight 93" you gave some bad meaning to Eurpoeans too...Just wondering