The Canadian Army - Page 5




 
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June 21st, 2006  
Senior Chief
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
Pure was a poor choice of words, but in the end, he was right. The French spoken in Quebec is quite similar to the French spoken in France 300 years ago, whereas Parisian French has changed and adopted words from many different sources. As for your observation about how French Canada sucks, perhaps you would appreciate it a lot more if you made an effort to learn the language. As it is, I live there, and I have noticed that it is mostly the tourists from Oklahoma that make stupid comments like that. Must be the lack of a useful education system....

If you don't like it, then be a bit more circumspect in how you state your opinions.


Dean.
Your response only solidifies my comments about Quebec. The language spoken in Quebec, and other provinces of Canada is not the better of the two, your "hometown arrogance" is showing.

As I understand the culture in Quebec, as well as knowing that English is taught in the school systems seems to be at odds with normalcy. If you know two languages and only choose to speak one, especially when the person you are working with only knows one language is extremely rude. That is what I came away from Quebec with

If you have a problem with speaking English to people that visit your country then don't interact with those visitors. In Ontario most of the people speak both languages and when they work with Americans they speak English. I have made some pretty strong friendships with the guys I worked with in Ontario, BC, Nova Scotia, Alberta and in the Northwest Territory.

As for me learning French. Why? French isn't even a secondary language in the U.S, if I were going to study a second or third language it would be Spanish and maybe Farsi. I live and work mostly in the United States. It isn't the language that is the barrier, it's the outlandish arrogance of the people. When I say French Canadians I limit that to those that live in Quebec as it is the only province that I've ever had any language problem in. Like I said, if they couldn't speak English it would be more acceptable, but they refuse to speak it.

Obviously your education was lacking in common courtesy, we could talk hours about that aspect of the French Canadians.
June 22nd, 2006  
Yoman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
As I understand the culture in Quebec, as well as knowing that English is taught in the school systems seems to be at odds with normalcy. If you know two languages and only choose to speak one, especially when the person you are working with only knows one language is extremely rude.
Lets just say the level of English they teach is very low (certain areas are better).

The questions for an English exam are written in French...

Et oui, dans certaine région de l'Ontario, la plupart de la population est billingue.
June 22nd, 2006  
Senior Chief
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoman
Lets just say the level of English they teach is very low (certain areas are better).

The questions for an English exam are written in French...

Et oui, dans certaine région de l'Ontario, la plupart de la population est billingue.
That's funny, almost every French Canadian that was forced to speak English that I dealt with could speak the language as well as most rednecks.

I still think it's just a ruse. The best thing that has happened to me is that I no longer work for the company that would have me working in Quebec. Now I go to normal places like Russia, India, China, Brazil, Peru and other assorted countries.
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June 22nd, 2006  
Yoman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
That's funny, almost every French Canadian that was forced to speak English that I dealt with could speak the language as well as most rednecks.

I still think it's just a ruse. The best thing that has happened to me is that I no longer work for the company that would have me working in Quebec. Now I go to normal places like Russia, India, China, Brazil, Peru and other assorted countries.
As I said, it depends on where you are in Quebec and what you are doing. I live 20 minutes from Quebec, I think I may have a better understanding then you do.

Just a side note, all officers in the Canadian Forces are required to do 2nd language training.
June 22nd, 2006  
Senior Chief
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoman
As I said, it depends on where you are in Quebec and what you are doing. I live 20 minutes from Quebec, I think I may have a better understanding then you do.

Just a side note, all officers in the Canadian Forces are required to do 2nd language training.
Are you an American living or working in Quebec? You just think you underestand, but you are looking from the wrong side of the equation.
June 22nd, 2006  
Yoman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
Are you an American living or working in Quebec? You just think you underestand, but you are looking from the wrong side of the equation.
Born and raised in Canada's capital. What side of the equation am I missing?
June 22nd, 2006  
Dean
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
Your response only solidifies my comments about Quebec. The language spoken in Quebec, and other provinces of Canada is not the better of the two, your "hometown arrogance" is showing.
Re-read my post. I never said that any one language was better, nor would I. In fact, I did say that the use of the word 'pure' was a poor choice of words, and this is because it does not translate well. In English, pure has a connotation of good and wholesome, whereas in French it simply means unchanged or uncontaminated. All I said, and all that Quebecer that you met was trying to say was that Quebec French is less changed than is Parisian French. The misinterpretation was yours, although in fairness, the choice of an English translation could have been better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
As I understand the culture in Quebec, as well as knowing that English is taught in the school systems seems to be at odds with normalcy. If you know two languages and only choose to speak one, especially when the person you are working with only knows one language is extremely rude. That is what I came away from Quebec with.
And here is where you made assumptions that have nothing to do with reality. Yes, French speaking students are required to take English courses. In reality, the vast majority (+95%) of students are not bilingual when they leave high school, and the few that are generally lose it because they have no opportunity to practice it where they live. In fact, in Montreal, about 30 percent of French speakers speak English, and most of them are concentrated in the downtown area. Anywhere outside of that, the proportion drops to the point that people tend to look at me in surprise when I speak to my kids in English. You know one language, well, so do they, but they are two different languages. The problem is that you assumed that people could speak English when they could not, and then you reacted on those beliefs.... so who is rude here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
If you have a problem with speaking English to people that visit your country then don't interact with those visitors.
That will get you far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
In Ontario most of the people speak both languages...
Sorry, but that is NOT true. I wish it were, but it is most definitely not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
...and when they work with Americans they speak English. I have made some pretty strong friendships with the guys I worked with in Ontario, BC, Nova Scotia, Alberta and in the Northwest Territory.
So, you were able to form friendships with people that spoke English or English and French, but none with people that spoke only French. Hmmmm... do you see a pattern here?

OK. You live in an English speaking area. When I visit there, if I want to meet people, I have to learn some of the language in order to do so. As you can see, my English is pretty good, so that is not really a problem. Let's change the scenario. If I want to visit Germany, I would be well advised to learn a bit of rudimentary German. This is common sense. It is the same thing for people visiting here. I do not expect you to learn French, but using a phrase book would be a good beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
As for me learning French. Why? French isn't even a secondary language in the U.S, if I were going to study a second or third language it would be Spanish and maybe Farsi.
Why not? There is nothing wrong with learning any language. When I studied Spanish, I knew that it was only for a week and that I would forget it afterwards, but it was worth it. Learning a bit of the language of the place you want to visit helps make the visit of that place far more personal and much more rewarding. In fact, I commend you for wanting to learn Farsi, even if it is for operational purposes. I have to warn you though, reading it is a b***h!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
I live and work mostly in the United States. It isn't the language that is the barrier, it's the outlandish arrogance of the people. When I say French Canadians I limit that to those that live in Quebec as it is the only province that I've ever had any language problem in. Like I said, if they couldn't speak English it would be more acceptable, but they refuse to speak it.
Here is where your arrogance is showing. Spanish is not a second language in Canada, but when I went to the Dominican Republic for a week, guess what language I learned a bit of. Learning Spanish in Quebec, or anywhere in Canada is pretty useless, but it made my visit so much more enjoyable. You said it right, the outlandish arrogance of the people is a barrier, particularly when you are so arrogant as to expect the world to speak to you only in the one language you are able to speak without regard as to where you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
Obviously your education was lacking in common courtesy, we could talk hours about that aspect of the French Canadians.
I do believe it was you who stated,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
The French portion of Canada basically sucks in my books.
I simply tried to show you how it feels when you say something so ignorant. I do know that 99.9 percent of people from Oklahoma are fine people, and that they, like every other region of the world suffer from that 0.01% percent of idiots. But I do feel feel very strongly that people who visit any region without an open mind should not be making statements like yours on a public forum. You said it, I called you on it, it is totally off-topic, and this is the last time I will say anything about it here. If anyone wishes to discuss it further, please PM me and I will be happy to do so.


Dean.
June 22nd, 2006  
Senior Chief
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoman
Born and raised in Canada's capital. What side of the equation am I missing?
Your aspect regarding the french speaking canadians is skewed as you are one of them.
June 22nd, 2006  
Senior Chief
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
yada yada yada.


Dean.
That's what I got out of your rant.

My experience in Quebec indicated to me that the people sucked because they would not work with someone that obviously had only one language. They could speak english but chose not to.

I've been to many foreign countries around the world and most of them are not only willing to speak english but they will search you out if they know that they can converse in english. After about 20 trips to Quebec I cannot say that I have found one single person that would do the same.

As a canadian your view is very slanted, you can't see the forrest for the trees.

Vous ne comprenez pas parce que vous estimez qu'il est au-dessous de vous pour faire ainsi.

C'est des morts asservis aussi bien qu'ennuyeux.
June 22nd, 2006  
Yoman
 
 
I don't understand how you can keep telling me that I don't understand. Myself and Dean clearly have more knowledge into the language capabilities of the Quebec population seeing as how we both live in or near Quebec.

The majority of Quebec in most areas, is not billingual.

PS: The french you wrote says this.

I do not understand because I estimate that it is over myself to do so. ??????

It is death controlled as well as tedius. ??????

When I have to look up some of those words, its bad.
 


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