Can someone pop over to Alabama and

try to clarify

Again...(this is the third time I've said this) that paragraph was said in jest. I wasn't serious at all about it.

I don't listen to any fanatics...I listen to reason and logic. I don't need a deity to tell me right from wrong when the doctrine and commands of that deity are riddled with immorality and inconsistency. I prefer to love my family with all my heart since they actually reciprocate the sentiment and it can be seen, heard, and felt. I don't need to love my neighbor, but I do treat them as I would like to be treated which is not exclusive to Christianity.

I don't understand why there is this compulsion to need a deity to make sure we don't do wrong when the following of deities is responsible for the murder of millions throughout the ages to include our own history. What is so hard about being good for the sake of being good without having to worry about some being recording your every single action in life to keep score so you might get into his afterlife country club? Yet, he set the rules, created us in his image, he already knows the outcome, he says he loves us and gives us a choice....but if we choose wrong he will literally torture us for all eternity in the worst conceivable way...even if we weren't even aware of the choice in the first place....but he loves us because he sacrificed himself to himself to protect everyone from him and the system he created...makes perfect sense...

So many such as the Crusaders, Inquisition, todays fanatics think they have the right to impose their beliefs on others in the name of the Lord. If they only read the book they supposedly represent they would see how screwed up they are. Christianity as represented by Christ only wants those that come willingly. I think one could call it a calling rather than a compulsion. He the Lord doesn't judge his followers based on a tally of rights and wrongs. A giant mistake practiced by tons of churches. He came to remove this burden which no one can keep since we are not perfect. I could go on with scriptures, but it suffices to say we get a black eye due to these nut jobs, money grappers and control freaks. My brother is one of the best most selfless people I know yet he not really committed to Christ - church.
 
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That's all you really care about isn't it. That everyone toes the line to your view of what America should look like. You're basically saying that you're fine with different people as long as they don't talk about their differences too much or at all even...they better look like you, talk like you, and be like you on the surface and keep all their "non American" beliefs in the closet where they belong huh?

I mentioned three and you mentioned that two of them didn't work...so we're left with fascism then huh? That sounds about right coming from you...I seriously doubt you even know the difference between the three. NONE of them work.

You're gonna talk about Pelosi when you have Bachman in the Tea party...seriously? You know the Tea Party is a front party sponsored by the Koch brothers right? They want America stupid and they want to influence legislation in their (not yours) benefit.

"Liberal infested school system"...um...have you been in school lately? There isn't some secret liberal meetings going on to brainwash the kids. Where the hell do you hear this crap from? Let me guess...people like Michelle Bachman tell you...or Fox news? (shaking my head in disgust) Or perhaps it's a way for the large proportion of the tea party base to feel better about not being very educated...demonize education and all of a sudden the uneducated look like purists or something...

Here's the bottom line, you don't have a fricking monopoly on patriotism. You don't have a monopoly on Americanism. And here's the biggest thing...you're NOT BETTER than those liberals you despise so much. You're the same. You got that...the constitution was made so that everyone's got a say. Them, you, and me included...as long as they're speaking their minds they're Americans and they get a say...you're free to disagree. You should also appreciate the fact they're there. Unless you want just one party...oh wait...that's right, that whole fascism thing.

So what do I do while you are praying at your town hall meeting? Or the Buddhist? or the Muslim? Just quietly let it happen right? Be "respectful" right? I don't get any of that as an atheist and my ideas are backed up by science...Not a hodgepodge fairy book that contradicts itself hundreds of times. Here's the deal, leave it out and we don't have to worry about it. Which god BTW? There's so many out there, who can keep track of all this nonsense...Let me guess, YOUR god is the right one huh? The same god of the Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons, Catholics, Orthodox, David Koresh etc who all have a different interpretation which is supposedly the right interpretation? Believers in the Abrahamic god can't even get their crap together on what to agree on and we are supposed be ok with them in our government? GTFO of here! I think it's you that's confused. It's pretty clear to me, leave it out and there is no confusion.
Never heard of the Great American Melting Pot? Doesn't matter where you come from you go in & come out an American. Another target of Leftist who want to abolish Traditional America, yes Balkanization is great for the Country in the eyes of the Left. Emphasize "Diversity" to keep people separated into blocks easy to manipulate.
Fascism: Reads like standard Socialism to me, though Il Duce said it isn't. Of course Socialism, Fascism, & communism don't work, but that's not stopping the Liberals from pushing us there.
Bachman doesn't even register in contrast to Pelosi's long list of idiocy.
"You know the Tea Party is a front party sponsored by the Koch brothers right? They want America stupid and they want to influence legislation in their (not yours) benefit." What is it with Liberals and the Koch Brothers??? He's waaaayyyy down the list of spenders vs George Soros, and the biggest spenders are the Unions bankrolling the Dem Party.
We had a "One Party" thing 2008-2010 & that really worked, NOT!

"Not a hodgepodge fairy book that contradicts itself hundreds of times." Typical statement of arrogant condecending liberal Athiests.

"It's pretty clear to me, leave it out and there is no confusion." Except the FF didn't leave religion out, just barred making it official.

Fox news? (shaking my head in disgust). ahhh1 Yes! Fox News, the onlt TV news not controlled by Liberals & that drives them nuts. I watch NBC Nightly News.

The Crusaders were trying to recover Christian(and Jewish) lands taken by force by Moslems.
 
A good portion of the founding fathers were deists (at least the most influential ones seemed to be) and they fervently wanted there to be distance between government and religion.

Isn't the constitution supposed to be a living, breathing document anyways? Isn't is supposed to the reflect the needs of the current society that uses it?

You didn't answer any of the questions I had addressing the fact that not everyone is a Christian. Can you not see that ANY type of religious whatever used by the a government official, written on a government building, or displayed on government property IS an endorsement by that government of that religion. Perception IS reality and the government absolutely NEEDS to be as transparent as possible.

I don't see how calling something what it is can be condescending and arrogant...Oh, it's only that when it refers to your holy book. It's not my fault you're living in a delusion and can't see for yourself all the contradictory, absolutely immoral, and just plain wrong that comes out of that document that was supposedly inspired by a perfect god. If you're too indoctrinated to see that, it isn't my fault. I have absolutely no inclination to cater to your sensitivities when I am asking valid questions that your holy book doesn't answer adequately.

Also, stop calling me a liberal. What have you given for this country that is more than me? You can hate me all you want but the fact is I've been putting my money where my mouth is for 13 years. I've killed for this fricking country and I've got nothing to god damned show for it. I've been blown the fvck up for this country and I've got nothing to show for it. I've evacked and bagged up countless buddies on the battlefield with nothing but grief to show for it. You see, that's what patriotism can do. It can get normal people to do unspeakable things...and we've been doing unspeakable things for a long time. You think that's what the founding fathers wanted? You think they want people on the far right counting down the days to when they can open fire on the "liberals"... because that's what this country is about...if people don't agree with you just kill them...I see it everyday and I'm getting the impression you might be in league with them. Please tell me I'm wrong.
 
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Also, do some actual research as to how the crusades went down...the crusaders rarely were doing it for noble reasons. Plus, at that time, life under the Muslims for Christians AND Jews was preferable to life in Christian lands. The Muslims were the most advanced civilization in the world at that time...I'm sure you knew that though right?
 
This is exactly the kind of crap that I mentioned earlier

Apparently nobody read my post because this is exactly the kind of non Biblical crap that many churches - Christians in name only spew out. The crusades were a non Christian power ploy. Most of the crusader's were also murderers and Thieves not that all of Saladin's guys were angles either. The crusaders did plenty of murdering on the way to the holy land killing Jews and other innocents.

An interesting fact is that the histories worse murderers were atheists i.e. Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
 
Apparently nobody read my post because this is exactly the kind of non Biblical crap that many churches - Christians in name only spew out. The crusades were a non Christian power ploy. Most of the crusader's were also murderers and Thieves not that all of Saladin's guys were angles either. The crusaders did plenty of murdering on the way to the holy land killing Jews and other innocents.

An interesting fact is that the histories worse murderers were atheists i.e. Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

Hitler was most certainly NOT an atheist. One could argue that with Stalin and Mao that the state was their religion. They certainly didn't murder because they were atheists, they murdered to get into and stay in power.
 
Hitler

Hitler was most certainly NOT an atheist. One could argue that with Stalin and Mao that the state was their religion. They certainly didn't murder because they were atheists, they murdered to get into and stay in power.

Hitler was brought up as a Catholic by his mother, by the time he was an adult he dumped these beliefs. He was sensitive to the German peoples concerns (although the Nazi's imprisoned - executed outspoken Protestant and Catholic leaders), and tolerated German Christianity many of whom thought Hitler was a gift from God.
The Nazi party of which Hitler was the head was basically an atheistic organization who desired for the individual to sacrifice his beliefs for the sake of the state. However it can be said that Hitler was the God of Nazi Germany, so from this viewpoint I guess they did have a supreme leader, appointed by providence "fate".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
Stalin and Mao killed off countless clergy: Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. which they viewed as competition. Many churches, Mosques, Synagogues were destroyed or converted to other purposes.
 
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A good portion of the founding fathers were deists (at least the most influential ones seemed to be) and they fervently wanted there to be distance between government and religion.

Isn't the constitution supposed to be a living, breathing document anyways? Isn't is supposed to the reflect the needs of the current society that uses it?

You didn't answer any of the questions I had addressing the fact that not everyone is a Christian. Can you not see that ANY type of religious whatever used by the a government official, written on a government building, or displayed on government property IS an endorsement by that government of that religion. Perception IS reality and the government absolutely NEEDS to be as transparent as possible.

I don't see how calling something what it is can be condescending and arrogant...Oh, it's only that when it refers to your holy book. It's not my fault you're living in a delusion and can't see for yourself all the contradictory, absolutely immoral, and just plain wrong that comes out of that document that was supposedly inspired by a perfect god. If you're too indoctrinated to see that, it isn't my fault. I have absolutely no inclination to cater to your sensitivities when I am asking valid questions that your holy book doesn't answer adequately.

Also, stop calling me a liberal. What have you given for this country that is more than me? You can hate me all you want but the fact is I've been putting my money where my mouth is for 13 years. I've killed for this fricking country and I've got nothing to god damned show for it. I've been blown the fvck up for this country and I've got nothing to show for it. I've evacked and bagged up countless buddies on the battlefield with nothing but grief to show for it. You see, that's what patriotism can do. It can get normal people to do unspeakable things...and we've been doing unspeakable things for a long time. You think that's what the founding fathers wanted? You think they want people on the far right counting down the days to when they can open fire on the "liberals"... because that's what this country is about...if people don't agree with you just kill them...I see it everyday and I'm getting the impression you might be in league with them. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Also, do some actual research as to how the crusades went down...the crusaders rarely were doing it for noble reasons. Plus, at that time, life under the Muslims for Christians AND Jews was preferable to life in Christian lands. The Muslims were the most advanced civilization in the world at that time...I'm sure you knew that though right?

Apparently nobody read my post because this is exactly the kind of non Biblical crap that many churches - Christians in name only spew out. The crusades were a non Christian power ploy. Most of the crusader's were also murderers and Thieves not that all of Saladin's guys were angles either. The crusaders did plenty of murdering on the way to the holy land killing Jews and other innocents.

An interesting fact is that the histories worse murderers were atheists i.e. Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

Hitler was most certainly NOT an atheist. One could argue that with Stalin and Mao that the state was their religion. They certainly didn't murder because they were atheists, they murdered to get into and stay in power.

"A good portion of the founding fathers were deists (at least the most influential ones seemed to be) and they fervently wanted there to be distance between government and religion". And yet they did have religion everywhere in Govt. Geo. Washington even adlibbed the "So help me God!" that is still recited to this day.

"Isn't the constitution supposed to be a living, breathing document anyways? Isn't is supposed to the reflect the needs of the current society that uses it?" Once again "Living & breathing" is a Liberal concept that it can be easily changed to follow current trends, where the FF did provide for Admending it, it was deliberately a slow process.


"I don't see how calling something what it is can be condescending and arrogant...Oh, it's only that when it refers to your holy book. It's not my fault you're living in a delusion and can't see for yourself all the contradictory, absolutely immoral, and just plain wrong that comes out of that document that was supposedly inspired by a perfect god. If you're too indoctrinated to see that, it isn't my fault. I have absolutely no inclination to cater to your sensitivities when I am asking valid questions that your holy book doesn't answer adequately." I'm not actually in the religious nut category, I steer a zig zag course along the Neutral Zone, depending on witch side is being silly. Doesn't blind me to the fact that the FF didn't create a religiously sterile govt when they could have if they really wanted it that way.

"You didn't answer any of the questions I had addressing the fact that not everyone is a Christian." The FF were aware of other religions, but didn't seem to provide "shelf space" for them.

"stop calling me a liberal!" If you didn't seem to be using DNC talking points....

"...if people don't agree with you just kill them." where did I say that?

"Also, do some actual research as to how the crusades went down...the crusaders rarely were doing it for noble reasons. Plus, at that time, life under the Muslims for Christians AND Jews was preferable to life in Christian lands. The Muslims were the most advanced civilization in the world at that time...I'm sure you knew that though right". "The crusades were a non Christian power ploy. Most of the crusader's were also murderers and Thieves not that all of Saladin's guys were angles either. The crusaders did plenty of murdering on the way to the holy land killing Jews and other innocents." Retaking the Holy Land was still be basic concept. They even sacked Christian cities, so, yeah they weren't well behaved.

"An interesting fact is that the histories worse murderers were atheists i.e. Hitler." The SS was setting up Pagan holidays, so I'd say they were Pagan.

out of time again.
 
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"A good portion of the founding fathers were deists (at least the most influential ones seemed to be) and they fervently wanted there to be distance between government and religion". And yet they did have religion everywhere in Govt. Geo. Washington even adlibbed the "So help me God!" that is still recited to this day.

"Isn't the constitution supposed to be a living, breathing document anyways? Isn't is supposed to the reflect the needs of the current society that uses it?" Once again "Living & breathing" is a Liberal concept that it can be easily changed to follow current trends, where the FF did provide for Admending it, it was deliberately a slow process.


"I don't see how calling something what it is can be condescending and arrogant...Oh, it's only that when it refers to your holy book. It's not my fault you're living in a delusion and can't see for yourself all the contradictory, absolutely immoral, and just plain wrong that comes out of that document that was supposedly inspired by a perfect god. If you're too indoctrinated to see that, it isn't my fault. I have absolutely no inclination to cater to your sensitivities when I am asking valid questions that your holy book doesn't answer adequately." I'm not actually in the religious nut category, I steer a zig zag course along the Neutral Zone, depending on witch side is being silly. Doesn't blind me to the fact that the FF didn't create a religiously sterile govt when they could have if they really wanted it that way.

"You didn't answer any of the questions I had addressing the fact that not everyone is a Christian." The FF were aware of other religions, but didn't seem to provide "shelf space" for them.

"stop calling me a liberal!" If you didn't seem to be using DNC talking points....

"...if people don't agree with you just kill them." where did I say that?

"Also, do some actual research as to how the crusades went down...the crusaders rarely were doing it for noble reasons. Plus, at that time, life under the Muslims for Christians AND Jews was preferable to life in Christian lands. The Muslims were the most advanced civilization in the world at that time...I'm sure you knew that though right". "The crusades were a non Christian power ploy. Most of the crusader's were also murderers and Thieves not that all of Saladin's guys were angles either. The crusaders did plenty of murdering on the way to the holy land killing Jews and other innocents." Retaking the Holy Land was still be basic concept. They even sacked Christian cities, so, yeah they weren't well behaved.

"An interesting fact is that the histories worse murderers were atheists i.e. Hitler." The SS was setting up Pagan holidays, so I'd say they were Pagan.

out of time again.

Hitler and more specifically Himmler desired to used the old Norse - Nordic gods as a way of cementing all the Germanic peoples who lived in Germany and Austria but also lived in Alsace, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Norway, Holland, etc. into a single Germanic people with a common ancestry. Not to start to worship and resurrect these ancient deity's as figures of worship, but as a focal point for the greater Germanic state.
 
Funny when if it's on the DNC's talking points it's automatically "false."
Both parties have their points and both are strongly flawed.
But then again, when it's so hard to explain why the DNC is really not liberal and how Obamacare is not socialist, rather it is a very conservative answer to a general healthcare coverage problem, there isn't a whole lot of places we can go with that in terms of a discussion.
 
.
But then again, when it's so hard to explain why the DNC is really not liberal and how Obamacare is not socialist, rather it is a very conservative answer to a general healthcare coverage problem, there isn't a whole lot of places we can go with that in terms of a discussion.
Obamacare is a huge step, but not the final step, twords Govt Health Care. @ least one Dem has admitted it's just another stepping stone. One Liberal media personality has got a few pages ahead of the script & said that ObamaCare is failing (not because it a total disaster) but because it's not Socialist enough. He probably wasn't supposed to say that this soon in the debacle.
People should remember that the VA is Govt Health Care & that seems screwed up, if they can't take care of a subset of the population it should be obvious they can't handle the whole population.



What would constitute "really Liberal"? Drooling psycopaths? The current leadership of the Dem Party (especially Obama)is probably further Left than most realize.
 
What would constitute "really Liberal"? Drooling psycopaths? The current leadership of the Dem Party (especially Obama)is probably further Left than most realize.

Are you sure you are just further right than you would care to admit?
 
Riduculus

This tread is the most ridiculous bunch of random political - religious babble one could possible image. At least many of the military related treads deal with people and events that are definitive. I guess that's to be expected by its very name. I come from NY but have lived in the south as well. The fact is it the individual that is either an idiot or not an idiot or should I say cultured or uncultured.
These leaders you speak of just follow who pays them the most for the most part. That is why we are more of an oligarchy. A politician may have good intentions initially but the temptations of power and money nearly always win out. It's all about special interest some left some right. Due I hear the highest bidder.
 
The question was...what do you consider to be "Really Liberal"??

It is an unanswerable question on the grounds that the only answer acceptable is determined by the position of the person asking and given that most of the people who care about left and right always position themselves as "centerists" no matter how far left or right they may be you can never get an accurate answer.

Basically what is liberal to a conservative is conservative to a liberal.

One thing I have learned through time is that most people have a mixture of liberal and conservative views and we call that balanced anyone with just one stance must therefore be unbalanced.

I remain a right wing socialist.
:)
 
It is an unanswerable question on the grounds that the only answer acceptable is determined by the position of the person asking and given that most of the people who care about left and right always position themselves as "centerists" no matter how far left or right they may be you can never get an accurate answer.

Basically what is liberal to a conservative is conservative to a liberal.

One thing I have learned through time is that most people have a mixture of liberal and conservative views and we call that balanced anyone with just one stance must therefore be unbalanced.

I remain a right wing socialist.
:)
Some good observations! Some think you have to be anti-abortion to be Conservative. It's pretty much a nonissue for me. I generally favor it being legal because I don't want people using the Govt to impose their religious views on people through legislation(a separate thing in my mind from the Athiest agenda of banning anything religious from Public property.) witch tends to be the usual view of separation of church & state. Let the pro & anti groups fight it out in the court of public opinion. One friend accused me of being a closet Liberal because I'm not Anti-abortion.
I'd think gun rights/self defence should be a nonpartisan thing, but I guess that Liberals have bought into the Nanny State thing to the point they are OK to abandoning basic self defence. So that being the case I think you have to be pro gun rights to be Conservative, though I do know a gun toting Lib. George Will is generally considered a Conservative journalist, but he's not pro gun, therefore he may only be a Conservative when compared to the rest of the liberal Media.
 
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