Can North Korea Engage the US in Total War?

Ahh Gator, you forgot a very important statistic.

United States' Military Expenditures
Dollar figure: 522 billion (Ranked 1st) (58% of world total)

China's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 70 billion (Ranked 3rd)

North Korea's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 5 billion (Ranked 26th)

The technology gap between the United States and China is much larger than it was back in the 50's because China no longer rely on exports from the Soviet Union for their latest military equipment, like they could with the Mig-15 during Korea.
 
Damien435 said:
Ahh Gator, you forgot a very important statistic.

United States' Military Expenditures
Dollar figure: 522 billion (Ranked 1st) (58% of world total)

China's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 70 billion (Ranked 3rd)

North Korea's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 5 billion (Ranked 26th)

The technology gap between the United States and China is much larger than it was back in the 50's because China no longer rely on exports from the Soviet Union for their latest military equipment, like they could with the Mig-15 during Korea.
Click to expand...

Gator said:
As China proved the last time the US was on the dance card in Korea its not so much the equipment, but rather more about the number of people one brings to the party........

The US had state of the art Weapons during the Korean War and we had to settle for a tie.http://
Click to expand...

Even without large numbers of Troops and the fact that Iraqi Insurgents seem to spend a whole lot less than the US militarily, and such the US has better equipment than the Iraqi Insurgents, plus more Troops, and yet it seems at the present time that the US cannot beat the Iraqi insurgents. The Taliban and al Qaeda also spend less than the United States of America militarily, and the US cannot seem to wrap things up there after all these years, longer than World War II as a matter of fact.

I'll also point out in a historical context (along with the fact that the US tied in the Korean War) that the US also spent more than the North Vietnamese militarily, and had state of the art equipment, and yet the North Vietnamese beat the United States of America.
 
Yes, but last time was a limited war. Can't draw an insurgency from a population that doesn't exist. (ie everyone's dead)
 
Gator,the most plobrem about military is supply.
About 1,500 ton supplies for a division a day.
I don't think china can carry enough supplies for such large army as you think.
AKA,railroad in NK is completely ruined lack maintainance.
I don't think shipborne work under airsuperiority under UN Air force.(or Sino-DPARK union can secure air superiority by their Mig-21?)
So,truck and　foot supply are the main way for chinese and north korean.
American stealth bomber can cut their supply line easily?
All right,I hope china doesn't help DPARK but I can't stop thinking about the worst situation.
 
Sandy... newsflash... over a year ago Hu Jintao declared that the Chinese-DPRK Mutual Defense Pact was "no longer in effect" due to the change of the world political scene. If the DPRK goes to war they go it alone this time.
 
sandy said:
All right,I hope china doesn't help DPARK but I can't stop thinking about the worst situation.
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Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

If only those words were heeded by the current White House with regards to Military Operations ongoing right now.
 
bulldogg said:
Sandy... newsflash... over a year ago Hu Jintao declared that the Chinese-DPRK Mutual Defense Pact was "no longer in effect" due to the change of the world political scene. If the DPRK goes to war they go it alone this time.
Click to expand...
I knew it,but same time he said that
"When managing ideology, we have to learn from Cuba and North Korea. Although North Korea has encountered temporary economic problems, its policies are consistently correct"
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Source
http://www.stwr.net/content/view/1172/37/

Well,I don't know his true face but basically I don't believe most politician's words.
But from strategic view,he must not welcome americans to be sitting near Beijing.
That situation may be another cuban crisis for chinese.
・・・・・・・International politic system seems　world of god father　for me・・・・・・

Originally Posted by Damien435
Ahh Gator, you forgot a very important statistic.

United States' Military Expenditures
Dollar figure: 522 billion (Ranked 1st) (58% of world total)

China's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 70 billion (Ranked 3rd)

North Korea's Military Expenditures
Dollar Figure: 5 billion (Ranked 26th)

The technology gap between the United States and China is much larger than it was back in the 50's because China no longer rely on exports from the Soviet Union for their latest military equipment, like they could with the Mig-15 during Korea.
Click to expand...
?hum?
But you forget about an important fact PPP (Purchasing power parity)
That means Chinese soldiers costs are very cheap.
And most armies pay salary for soldiers.
And chinese official announcement？
Who the moron on the earth believe it?
So now I can say that Chinese buy russian weapons and engines,avionics.
 
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Sandy, those numbers are not from China's official sources, they are from the CIA World Factbook, Wikipedia, and an assortment of other sources (DoD publications, etc.) where I averaged the numbers because the official size of their military budget is kept secret and estimates vary from 60-90 billion USD. Even if the Chinese pay their soldiers a dollar a week it still doesn't change the fact that we are far outspending China. Even if China does have the latest jet fighters from Sukhoi or any other Russian design firms, it still doesn't change the fact that China is greatly lacking in the support department, they are putting all their money into these brand new ocean going vessels and shiny fighters and tanks with big guns and they will send them into combat blind. China's Air Force will get hacked to pieces if they attempt to engage the United States in open warfare, with advances in missile technology we can hit the Chinese aircraft seconds after they get off the ground (did it in Iraq rounds 1 and 2) because of our superior detection techology (satellite, radar, etc.). It won't be cheap, it won't be easy, we'd lose a lot of lives and quite frankly invading North Korea is not worth risking a war with China but we would win.
 
Damien,I'm worried if chinese&north korean fighters take off from chinese territory and washignton doesn't allow bombing chinese mainland as korean war Ⅰ.
Chinese doesn't have enough AWACS but can use ground rader system.
And moree even if china doesn't support North korea officially,what will happen if china allow north korean guerilla to stay in china and buy weapons?
As iraq shows,even amateur guerillas are enough to force americans to pay great efforts for security.
 
North korea and china are allies and always have been. The North Koreans only have to worry about U.S. and South Korea. The united states has aircraft carriers and air bases in Japan, Guam, and South Korea, so if war broke out before the U.S could deploy any significant military forces of at least 750,000 troops in South Korea much like the UN Build up of the Gulf war 1 & 2, North Korea would reign well over 300,000 artillery shells and missiles on Seoul which is close to the DMZ.

The NK have a doctrine of huge blitzkrieg on SK before any meaningful American military is deployed on the ground. The NK have the largest special forces in the world in excess of 120,000 commandos trained to infiltrate the rear of the SK lines and reck havoc on supply lines, retreating SK troops, and SK reserves heading for the front.

The Americans have a large air assets in and around SK and Japan which the U.S. could rely on to bomb the NK in order to stem their advance. One must remember though that air power alone will not get the job done specially when limited to conventional air bombing. Within the first 24-48hrs the NK plan on capturing Seoul.

The U.S. cannot resort to nuclear weapons for 2 main reasons: The Chinese and Russians which share border with NK will not let America use nukes on their backyard which could have sever climate and health factors on their soil and secondly the NK would retailate with nuking SK, Japan, Alaska, Hawaii and California. If the Americans ignored the Russians and the Chinese the war could easily spread into something unimaginable and would pop the genie out of the bottle; and that is the use of nukes.

The NK with the huge infantry, armor, and special forces would easily overwhelm the 30k U.S troops and 300k SK troops on the border. The only way to seriously stem the NK advance and likely hood of the capture of SK is the use of nukes, and that is out of the question. If NK ever seemed to be losing, no matter how unlikely it is against SK, you better believe its a whole different ball game, the Chinese and Russians wont allow American troops into NK and at their doorstep. The will either work overtly or covertly to make sure America never captures NK.
 
Somalia, North Korea and China are no longer bound by any defense pact agreement. More than four years ago now China publicly declared that in light of the current state of world affairs its defense agreement with North Korea was "no longer viable" nor in China's best interests.

Russia and China are likewise "friends" in only the loosest interpretation of the word. Russia would take advantage of any opportunity to wrest China's advantage in economic terms away from them.

Your final paragraph is frought with error and biased judgements. The US would never try to "capture" North Korea. This implies some sort of colonialism and that's just not on mate. You also have made the error that even Mao himself cautioned people on, never assume quantity can trump quality. In your lifetime you have never even seen on CNN the full might of the US military in action. It has been some 60 odd years since the dogs were released and I'd daresay the Japanese, Italian, Vichy French and Germans can attest to the power of the beast. But by all means continue to assume... please.
 
lol, kind of off topic here, but Bulldogg gave me a good laugh. When I read "Somalia, North Korea and China are no longer bound by any defensive pact agreement." the first thought that came to mind was "Jesus Bulldogg, have we maybe started hitting the bottle a little early lately?" Not realizing that Somalia was in reference to the user he was replying to, not the country. Now let's all enjoy a drink and a laugh at my expense. :drunkb:
 
One thing some one mentioned a tie for the Korean Conflict. Last time I checked the USA was never officially at war on the Korean Peninsula and it has never officially ended, we only have a cease fire hence the DMZ.

So to say we tied is wrong since it hasn't finished...

Now about the NK taking over Seoul, did we all forget that the Korean DMZ is the most heavily armed border in the world? I don't see it being an easy task for NK to just hop on over and push into Seoul....

Sure they could make tunnels like they did in the past but I think the South and the US forces there are on to that tactic....
 
They dont have to take Seoul, they could destroy the entire city without stepping foot into SK. They have massive amounts of artilliary zero'd in on the city. It is a known fact that if war breaks out Seoul is gone.

 
If Seoul is gone, we must avenge every city burned threefold, until no North Korean brick lies atop another and their entire military and politico class is annihilated.
 
The United States and UN coalition will roll over the North Korean Military like a hot knife through butter. The North Korean airforce consist of obsolete MiG-15s, MiG-17s, MiG-19s, and MiG-21s, with a handful of modern MiG-29s. I believe that five US F-18s can shoot down 30 North Korean planes. As for the North Korean Navy, look out for those missile boats and obsolete submarines which can be easily taken out long range by US ships. And finally, the North Korean army.

If Dessert Storm proved anything is that T-34 tanks can be taken out easily. Just shoot from a long distance and BAM, bye bye T-34.

The only thing dangerous about the North Korean Military is their biological weapons.
 
Red_Army said:
The United States and UN coalition will roll over the North Korean Military like a hot knife through butter. The North Korean airforce consist of obsolete MiG-15s, MiG-17s, MiG-19s, and MiG-21s, with a handful of modern MiG-29s. I believe that five US F-18s can shoot down 30 North Korean planes. As for the North Korean Navy, look out for those missile boats and obsolete submarines which can be easily taken out long range by US ships. And finally, the North Korean army.

If Dessert Storm proved anything is that T-34 tanks can be taken out easily. Just shoot from a long distance and BAM, bye bye T-34.

The only thing dangerous about the North Korean Military is their biological weapons.
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The United States Government and "Coalition" (of the Willing) Forces seemed to have thought that Iraq this time would be quick, and yet here we are.

On the one hand North Korea's idea of Total War is very different than if the United States Military pushed the button on Total War, but, if North Korea took Seoul, which is entirely possible, then the United States Military would not Nuke Seoul to take out the North Koreans there, and it would be difficult to rout out the North Koreans because South Koreans look just like North Koreans, and North Koreans know the language of the South Koreans.

As for the equipment that North Korea has, well, I'd say that North Korea knows they cannot stand toe to toe with the United States Military in an all out fight, but the Iraqis also knew such this time out, and look at how the Iraqis adjust to the situation this time out.

In the end Equipment is nice... but to win there has to be the will to fight in the first place, and personally I do not see Americans standing in line to sign up just to risk all for a South Korean.... again.
 
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