Can Britain, France, or China spend like the US? - Page 5




 
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June 20th, 2007  
Grimmy
 
Before any nation can even begin to approach the US in production of any real military capability sufficient enough to be more than a speed bump they'll have to first:

Develop a culture of entrepreneurial and creative problem solving excellence.
Develop a massive post secondary education system tied directly to massive research and development systems.
Develop an economy that is, for example, robust enough to not only dominate and influence the entire global economy, but also resilient enough to be cut nearly in half through a catastrophic attack and rebound to even higher levels in just a couple years.

Do all that and then have a reason to have a big military and maybe, someday.

And to those who join in on the leftist sponsored whine fest concerning the GWoT (I am also very much a fan of the TWAT concept), those of us who are familiar with Counter Insurgency but not main practitioners (spec ops) who define themselves through CI type warfare have been harshly against the general "kinder gentler" CI setup for exactly YOU as a reason.

That the weak, stupid, impatient, mindless regurgitators of hostile propaganda, moronic, brain dead, dumbass and degenerate cowards that so dominate the population remaining on "the home front" would be manipulated by a hostile media was well understood and predicted.

There are all sorts of ways to fall to treason, some by purpose and some simply through shear idiocy and spinelessness.

Death to all enemy! Foreign and Domestic.
June 20th, 2007  
Grimmy
 
The way that came out makes it sound like I'm accusing folk here of the treasons and such. Wasn't intended.

Luckily for me, I dont write for a living so sometimes slop seeps in and I mislay some rounds off target.
June 20th, 2007  
WNxRogue
 
 
Im cutting out the bottom of this quote becuase it really has no bearing on this debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmy
Before any nation can even begin to approach the US in production of any real military capability sufficient enough to be more than a speed bump they'll have to first:

Develop a culture of entrepreneurial and creative problem solving excellence.
Develop a massive post secondary education system tied directly to massive research and development systems.
Develop an economy that is, for example, robust enough to not only dominate and influence the entire global economy, but also resilient enough to be cut nearly in half through a catastrophic attack and rebound to even higher levels in just a couple years.

Do all that and then have a reason to have a big military and maybe, someday.
I agree and disagree. Yes, a country will need some kind of cultural driving force to move the development and production to ever-higher levels. This doesnt neccessarily mean entrepreneurialship needs to be popular, though that is the most common cause of this driving force. I agree that it does require a rather large educated populace, but today that doesnt mean the country itself has to have a lot of post secondary infrastructure. Many people can leave their respective countries and travel to say.........the US....to get that kind of training. I think your last point is just the end result of your first two, and yes that of course is neccessary to any industrialized nation.

Each country that has been thrown out as an option has its own issues to resolve, at least compared to the US. England doesnt have the population or the production capabilities of the US. France has issues with labor, and also doesnt have as much production capability as we do. China at this point simply doesnt have the infrastructure. But by looking at this list, China is the one that can be changed the fastest. They have the population, and that population in ever increasing numbers is getting an education. They have the resources and are building up the production infrastructure needed. I think that within the next 10 years, they will have the capability to out produce the USA.
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June 20th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmy
Before any nation can even begin to approach the US in production of any real military capability sufficient enough to be more than a speed bump they'll have to first:

Develop a culture of entrepreneurial and creative problem solving excellence.
Develop a massive post secondary education system tied directly to massive research and development systems.
Develop an economy that is, for example, robust enough to not only dominate and influence the entire global economy, but also resilient enough to be cut nearly in half through a catastrophic attack and rebound to even higher levels in just a couple years.

Do all that and then have a reason to have a big military and maybe, someday.

And to those who join in on the leftist sponsored whine fest concerning the GWoT (I am also very much a fan of the TWAT concept), those of us who are familiar with Counter Insurgency but not main practitioners (spec ops) who define themselves through CI type warfare have been harshly against the general "kinder gentler" CI setup for exactly YOU as a reason.

That the weak, stupid, impatient, mindless regurgitators of hostile propaganda, moronic, brain dead, dumbass and degenerate cowards that so dominate the population remaining on "the home front" would be manipulated by a hostile media was well understood and predicted.

There are all sorts of ways to fall to treason, some by purpose and some simply through shear idiocy and spinelessness.

Death to all enemy! Foreign and Domestic.
By God Grimmy its good to have you around here posting... this brought a big ol Texas grin to my face.
June 20th, 2007  
Yossarian
 
 
"There are all sorts of ways to fall to treason, some by purpose and some simply through shear idiocy and spinelessness.

Death to all enemy! Foreign and Domestic."

If only more Americans thought with that mentality
June 20th, 2007  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue
Im cutting out the bottom of this quote becuase it really has no bearing on this debate.



I agree and disagree. Yes, a country will need some kind of cultural driving force to move the development and production to ever-higher levels. This doesnt neccessarily mean entrepreneurialship needs to be popular, though that is the most common cause of this driving force. I agree that it does require a rather large educated populace, but today that doesnt mean the country itself has to have a lot of post secondary infrastructure. Many people can leave their respective countries and travel to say.........the US....to get that kind of training. I think your last point is just the end result of your first two, and yes that of course is neccessary to any industrialized nation.

Each country that has been thrown out as an option has its own issues to resolve, at least compared to the US. England doesnt have the population or the production capabilities of the US. France has issues with labor, and also doesnt have as much production capability as we do. China at this point simply doesnt have the infrastructure. But by looking at this list, China is the one that can be changed the fastest. They have the population, and that population in ever increasing numbers is getting an education. They have the resources and are building up the production infrastructure needed. I think that within the next 10 years, they will have the capability to out produce the USA.

Government also play a huge role, Democracy. The freedom to do as one wishes, within govermental reason.


Yes being an entrepreneur plays a big role, as well as being a capitalist.

The US is a miliaristic nation. We imortialized Patton for crying out loud.

I veiw us as like being like Spartan's, small, strong, and indeed being a military oriented country and the Persian's want us dead.

War.

Our society is built around it.
June 20th, 2007  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmy
Before any nation can even begin to approach the US in production of any real military capability sufficient enough to be more than a speed bump they'll have to first:

Develop a culture of entrepreneurial and creative problem solving excellence.
Develop a massive post secondary education system tied directly to massive research and development systems.
Develop an economy that is, for example, robust enough to not only dominate and influence the entire global economy, but also resilient enough to be cut nearly in half through a catastrophic attack and rebound to even higher levels in just a couple years.

Do all that and then have a reason to have a big military and maybe, someday.

And to those who join in on the leftist sponsored whine fest concerning the GWoT (I am also very much a fan of the TWAT concept), those of us who are familiar with Counter Insurgency but not main practitioners (spec ops) who define themselves through CI type warfare have been harshly against the general "kinder gentler" CI setup for exactly YOU as a reason.

That the weak, stupid, impatient, mindless regurgitators of hostile propaganda, moronic, brain dead, dumbass and degenerate cowards that so dominate the population remaining on "the home front" would be manipulated by a hostile media was well understood and predicted.

There are all sorts of ways to fall to treason, some by purpose and some simply through shear idiocy and spinelessness.

Death to all enemy! Foreign and Domestic.

Is there a way we can patent and implace this mindset into others??
June 20th, 2007  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FO Seaman
Government also play a huge role, Democracy. The freedom to do as one wishes, within governmental reason.


Yes being an entrepreneur plays a big role, as well as being a capitalist.

The US is a militaristic nation. We immortalized Patton for crying out loud.

I view us as like being like Spartan's, small, strong, and indeed being a military oriented country and the Persian's want us dead.

War.

Our society is built around it.

It is sometimes hard to believe, but it is true, we are dealing arms like we are foreign aid. It sometimes seems to contradict our morals, if we mean well, which, indeed the public seems to. Then why are we giving the means to people to arm up and spread violence?

Every time a international arms fair (the military kind)opens up, the U.S. is almost always one of the top proprietors there. But, with every item, and key competent a military weapon or system sold. That means we have to now out do ourselves, in order to stay ahead of the market. Basically, almost like a self inflicted blow.

It shows how our (quoted earlier) economy can rebound , and balance military funding with the many other government organizations in our nation. If you can afford to throw your top technology around, for all to see. Only to out do yourself in under a decade. Then you are a militarized state or nation. Now, I'm not saying that we sell all our technology, especially our aerospace systems.

And, how long we can last like this? I don't know, but, this nation, accounts for allot of other misc. things that can be linked to this, in fact, we produce the most garbage than any nation in the world. That means, we can afford a packaged society, everything in the states is packaged, everything.

2nd, we are the most, polluting nation in the world, meaning that, we accord for a large percentage of the world's air and water pollution. What does that say about our nation? (we are industrialized)

And last, this nation is the world's biggest consumer on fossil fuels. Which, means, much of our society can afford oil products , like automobiles, outside of industry. Which means, our citizens have a generally higher quality of life than those of some other nations. (no international offense)

All in all, we are industrialized, and rich, and have been for years. Coupled that with a undeniable, active military history. And experience, then you've got yourself with one thriving war machine, and thus, a thriving arms market.

Frankly, I cant think of any other way to word it....
June 20th, 2007  
Grimmy
 
Is there a way we can patent and implace this mindset into others??

No place to look for an answer except in the mirror. If you aint got it, no one's fault but yours. If you tolerate weakness and enemy sympathizers around you then you are guilty of allowing treason to prosper. If you hold back from confronting traitors where ever, when ever for whatever reason then you have given into the same cowardice that provides this filth it's growth medium.

Back to the topic...

The US of A is not, traditionally, a military oriented nation. It was our former custom to raise an army at need and then disband most of it once that need passed.

Going into WW2, we had a very small military with almost no potential for sustained force projection. The only exception to that was our navy.

What changed and caused us to "go big" was the long stand off with the soviets after WW2. There was a need for massive military build up, force restructure, and continual arms development. We were able to rise to that because of the unique combination of traits and infrastructure existed within us as persons and as a nation.

China as a potential is so egg shell thin in infrastructure and population/social stability that there's not going to be anything there in any sustainable way for at least another 25 years.
France should not be considered as an independant nation for this discussion, but as part of the EU. The EU has and will have the infrastructure and the education base but what they wont have is the bone deep imaginative adaptation and problem solving in research and development that comes from what is often labeled "entrepreneurial spirit".

I'll give this one example.
We were heading to war in Afghanistan. There was much discussion in the news on the caves and tunnels that our troops would have to fight in to dig out the evil scum we were at war with.
A lady, who happend to be a scientist and also happened to be the boss of a research lab listened to some of those bobble heads on TV and she came up with an idea.
That idea was thermobaric munitions.
She made some calls. She started the process rolling just in case it got cleared for development and funding.
3 months later, her idea was being dropped on tunnel and cave entrances and killing the enemy without our troops having to go spelunking to close hand to hand with the enemy in the darkness.

This lady wasn't born in the US. She was a refugee from Vietnam but she had what makes us unique and she had it in spades.

This is the thing that the EU will not be able to match. Anyone thinking our military procurement and distribution systems are fubar, wait until there's something approaching equal size, mass and complexity to compare it against. Only then will the true amazement of what we can do be made apparent.

Britain could do it but as was said above only really lacks in population base. Unfortunately, Britain will never have the option to rise to greatness as it is slowly swallowed up by the EU.
June 20th, 2007  
Yossarian
 
 
More Irony in the decline of the British military, they were once a world super power.
 


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