Bush lifts executive ban on offshore drilling

Duty Honor Country

Active member
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-07-14-bush-offshore-drilling_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

To me, this is a step in the right direction. Before drilling can happen, congress must vote. The world oil situation is pretty bad. We must take steps on all fronts to make the pain less severe. The US is definitely dependent on oil so the more the merrier. Since it will take a few years to drill and pump the oil, we need to start now. THen we need to R and D any and all kinds of alt fuel technology. Mr Ross Perot proposed a 50 cent gas tax back in 1991, when gas was much cheaper, will all proceeds going to alt fuel technology. If that had happened, we would be in a much better position today. The government's failure to act on that tax demonstrates the inefficiency of government. Remember, Ross Perot was a businessman first. He was looking at economics and not moral obligation or some other BS term government officials like to use to justify their actions.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-07-14-bush-offshore-drilling_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

To me, this is a step in the right direction. Before drilling can happen, congress must vote. The world oil situation is pretty bad. We must take steps on all fronts to make the pain less severe. The US is definitely dependent on oil so the more the merrier. Since it will take a few years to drill and pump the oil, we need to start now. THen we need to R and D any and all kinds of alt fuel technology. Mr Ross Perot proposed a 50 cent gas tax back in 1991, when gas was much cheaper, will all proceeds going to alt fuel technology. If that had happened, we would be in a much better position today. The government's failure to act on that tax demonstrates the inefficiency of government. Remember, Ross Perot was a businessman first. He was looking at economics and not moral obligation or some other BS term government officials like to use to justify their actions.

Im not sure of the results of this. From what I understand, the issues leading to increasing fuel costs is not so much a lack of crude, more a lack of refinement capabilities (and the fact that the Chinese/Indians are purchasing a lot more then they have been in the past). If this is the case, then perhaps our money would be better spent on more refineries rather then investing in drilling more crude.
 
I agree, we need to build a few more refineries since we have not built one sine the 1970's and most of our refineries are at 90% capacity. Every time there is a fire or a refinery goes down, the price of oil and gas spikes. But these days, a bad storm is all it takes for the speculators to drive the price of oil up.

We need to take action on all fronts to get ourselves out of the current mess.
 
Nonononono no no no.

How exactly does this solve our problem? This oil won't affect prices for at least a decade, according to what I heard on NPR earlier this afternoon. And then we'll still run out of oil within 15 years anyway.

Just another example of Big Oil running the country...
 
Nonononono no no no.

How exactly does this solve our problem? This oil won't affect prices for at least a decade, according to what I heard on NPR earlier this afternoon. And then we'll still run out of oil within 15 years anyway.

Just another example of Big Oil running the country...

Believe it or not that's a good thing, ever heard the statement that "necessity is the mother of all invention". It has by now become abundantly clear that we will not invest in a replacement for oil until we have no other option which will be about the same time it runs out.
 
Believe it or not that's a good thing, ever heard the statement that "necessity is the mother of all invention". It has by now become abundantly clear that we will not invest in a replacement for oil until we have no other option which will be about the same time it runs out.
When it's too late...

Sometimes I hate humanity... :bang:
 
Drilling her and drilling now is the right answer. I wouldn't go as far to say it is the answer by itself. Even with this going on, the alternative energy also ought to be a mission.


 
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While the contention that we won't see an immediate impact out of drilling more wells and building more refinery capacity has a lot of validity, if we don't start RIGHT NOW to address this catastrophe, we could very well be in a world of doodoo that can destroy any possibility to maintain the lifestyle we have all come to expect.

EVERYTHING ... EVERYTHING ... EVERYTHING, IS NOW DEPENDENT UPON ENERGY AND FUEL.

Whether you are talking about services or durable goods, without energy or fuel, these goods and services would soon disappear.

With us being in an election year, most of what GW is doing (since he is a lame duck President), is politically motivated. Lifting the President's ban of exploration/drilling on the Continental Shelf is a starting point to partially soften the impact of spiralling crude oil prices - however - even the President's own party (Republicans), haven't taken steps to lift Congress'/Senate's ban. GW urged them to do so earlier this year and promised to tailor his ban lift to the package that Congress and the Senate passed. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans had done anything to even get the "question" to the floor for discussion or debate.

Whether the President's action will force the issue or not, it should ratchet up the view by many Americans, that government has NOT done enough to address the spiralling cost increases ALL Americans are facing at the pumps and on their heating and electrical bills.

While increasing our own ability to increase available crude is a start, ultimately, we are going to have to find cheap alternates for fuel and energy if we wish to continue our march to a prosperous American Dream for all Americans. Without energy or fuel, our way of life and our lifestyles will go the way of the Roman Empire (America as a third world country anyone?????????).
 
I think thats good stuff there for the most part Chief.
As for America third world country, could be if certain folks have their way but I'm not getting into that, too easy to get in trouble.
 
There be something else we have not talked about; oil shale and tar sands.

Estimates are varied but my neighbors to the north, the Canadians, estimate that Alberta alone might have enough oil locked away in tar sands as Saudi Arabia. Of course the echo nazis declare the process to refine oil sands and oil shale emits 3 times as much green house gases as regular oil does. The good old USA has a lot of oil shale. Tar sands and oil shale were looked at after the Middle East shut off oil to the West. It is expensive to process the stuff, but estimates in Canada say it costs $18 a barrel to refine tar sands. With oil above $140, its game on.

Once again this is a market driven solution. I can see lawsuits and government hindering this solution just like off shore drilling which a democratic controlled congress won't pass.

here be some sources from the news that support my claims
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=tar%20sands%20oil%20shale&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn
 
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Agreed Lt, Thank God cuz I don't feel like bending and thrusting my fat arse.

The excessive concern about the environment is a joke anyway in many ways, after all Al Gore uses more energy for his home than anyone except maybe John Edwards.

Great use of Ebonics in there Lt. I be likin.
 
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Agreed Lt, Thank God cuz I don't feel like bending and thrusting my fat arse.

The excessive concern about the environment is a joke anyway in many ways, after all Al Gore uses more energy for his home than anyone except maybe John Edwards.

Well if environmental concern is such a joke I heard there is some cheap land around Chernobyl available for immediate settlement, interested?

Putting aside the environmental impact of drilling and extracting oil from various locations because for the most part we can achieve both extraction and low impact the problem still remains that we are simply prolonging the agony and not curing the disease.

I am sure that we could squeeze a gallon of gas collecting oil from the faces of spotty teenagers if we really get desperate but eventually we will have to face the realities of a life without oil (putting aside the amazing refilling oil fields hypothesis) and we are doing nothing to address this.
 
If I was in the position to move certain folks there I'd take it for them and have them moved there, not for me.

BTW, I didn't say the environmental concern was a joke and leave it at that, I did also say in many ways.
 
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Start the drilling, build new refineries, and sell it at a lower price then what OPEC does.

If you have cheese pizzas and you sell them for $15 a pop and they cost you $5 to make that means you make $10 in profit. But if you only sell three in one day you only make $30 a day.

If I have cheese pizzas and I sell them for $1o a pop and they cost me $5 to make that means I only make $5 in profit. But because I have the same product at a lower price do you think people will buy more of yours of mine? Sure, you might make for per protect but if I sell thirty pizzas then that means I make $150 in profit.

Same with oil. During the 1980s oil dropped up to 42% in price per barrel for the same reason. After the Oil Embargo the US stated that we would drill for our own oil and would develop are coal and shale into oil. OPEC immediately lowered the price and increased production because they knew that if the US started producing their own oil that they would lose their main source of profit and also that they would have to compete against another major oil producer.

While we do this we must go into a huge industrial project to the same level that we went for atmotic weapons during WWII for an alternate source of fuel.

Biofuel from corn isn't the answer. It produces less energy, cannot be piped, and we're burning our own food source. To transport biofuels you must truck it period. Gasoline and oil can be piped. Biofuel produces less BTUs then Gasoline so for the same amount of distance you need to use more biofuel then gasoline. Lastly the energy needed to produce biofuels is more then what biofuels produce.

For electrical power for homes and services. Nuclear is the way to go. Cheap, long lasting, and reliable. It is safe. The Soviets weren't safe... they were a bunch of drunken chimps.

For transportation. Hybrid is currently the way to go but there are a few problems with it. One, price. There are not many people that can afford a $30,000 automobile. The price of Hybrids need to drop to the $10,000 range. Number two, it might seem small and trivial. Looks. Hybrids should not look like some small damn egg. Make then in standard designs and styles. Make them for pickup trucks and full side four door sedans.

As a replacement. Electrical cars don't work. They didn't work in the past either. The reasons are just as now as in the past the following. One, charge time. With gasoline it takes two minutes to fill up a tank and you're done. With electrical automobiles you need to have them charge for hours. Two, transportation of fuel. You can take extra jerry cans of fuel but you can't transport electricity the same way. Batteries are bulky and expensive to produce and transport. Three, battery life. You get no range for electric powdered cars. 40 miles is about the max for a full charge. Most people travel close to 40 miles one way to work. Doesn't work for our economy. Everything is transported by truck over long distance. Also during disasters, electricity is easily cut of during storms, quakes, tornadoes, etc... You can stock up on gasoline but you can do so with electricity. You can still manually pump fuel out of tanks but if you have no electricity flowing through the power lines you have no enegry for an electric car.

What we need for a alternative fuel source is possibly hydrogen or maybe some other easy transportable and productional fuel.
 
5.56
You mentioned hydrogen hybrids and how expensive they are ($30,000-$40,00 or more). I agree with you ... the present technology requires an on-board tank and there are only a finite number of stations where hydrogen is available for sale. What you have NOT mentioned, are other hydrogen alternatives for older cars and trucks. My wife and I bought a set of plans for a "poor man's hydrogen conversion" kit {Charged Water System}, and now offer them for sale. What we have seen, is a gas mileage improvement of between 25% to 72% depending on how old the vehicle is, the condition of the engine, the vehicle mileage and other variables.

It is going to take these kind of ideas and a whole new approach to fuels and energy before we can wean ourselves from fossil fuels. Oil shale, tar sands, hydrogen on-demand engines and many other not-yet-thought-of-ideas are going to have to be used before the battle is over.
 
Here's a thought: now that it's so expensive to buy gasoline, alternatives arent' so expensive. Devellop an electric battery/motor with a huge range where you can drive all day and charge all night. With the prices of gas and oil it's cost effective.

And 5.56, they do make family sedan hybrids. Honda Accord, Chevy Malibu, and Toyota Prius come to mind.
 
Start the drilling, build new refineries, and sell it at a lower price then what OPEC does.

And how does drilling solve the the Climate Change Problem? Your police vehicle might be a canoe by then.Also keep in mind that it will take 22 YEARS before any effect on the price of oil.

"The US Energy Department's forecasting arm has said opening the Pacific, Atlantic and eastern Gulf of Mexico regions to drilling "would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030".

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/US-President-George-Bush-Lifts-Ban-On-Offshore-Drilling/Article/200807315035757?lpos=World%2BNews_4&lid=ARTICLE_15035757_US%2BPresident%2BGeorge%2BBush%2BLifts%2BBan%2BOn%2BOffshore%2BDrilling


America is addicted to oil, you don't treat an addiction by increasing the dosage. All you are doing by drilling more is increasing the damand for gas-gussing SUV, but the problem will still be there 20 years later.
This is yet again another high-five to the big oil industry, who has been pushing to end the memortium the day after Bush Senior 41 signed it. Bush as been such a puppet to the oil industry in the past, I dont see any reason to trust him on this.


Same with oil. During the 1980s oil dropped up to 42% in price per barrel for the same reason. After the Oil Embargo the US stated that we would drill for our own oil and would develop are coal and shale into oil. OPEC immediately lowered the price and increased production because they knew that if the US started producing their own oil that they would lose their main source of profit and also that they would have to compete against another major oil producer.

Your example is sorely flawed because Except in 1980 the World didnt have the demand for oil that China and India do now. Its essentially two countries whose growing economies will be larger than ours. Its a much different picture today, OPEC is not going to lower its prices. The only way to drop the price is not to use oil.

While we do this we must go into a huge industrial project to the same level that we went for atmotic weapons during WWII for an alternate source of fuel.

For electrical power for homes and services. Nuclear is the way to go. Cheap, long lasting, and reliable. It is safe. The Soviets weren't safe... they were a bunch of drunken chimps.

US Nuclear plants arnt much better, remember the 3 Mile Island accident? Our Nuclear plant infrastructure is at the same level as everything else: crumbling. The only way to do what you suggest is to build new plants which is time consuming, dangerous and extremely expensive.

For transportation. Hybrid is currently the way to go but there are a few problems with it. One, price. There are not many people that can afford a $30,000 automobile. The price of Hybrids need to drop to the $10,000 range. Number two, it might seem small and trivial. Looks. Hybrids should not look like some small damn egg. Make then in standard designs and styles. Make them for pickup trucks and full side four door sedans.

For a short term solution yes. The price of hybrids will drop (it already has) but Hybrids do not solve the problem completely because you are still burning gas. Oil has got to go, just as windpower and steam power went the way of the dodo so does oil. The problem is the oil cartel who loves the $400 Billion in profits they are making each year.

As a replacement. Electrical cars don't work. They didn't work in the past either. The reasons are just as now as in the past the following. One, charge time. With gasoline it takes two minutes to fill up a tank and you're done. With electrical automobiles you need to have them charge for hours. Two, transportation of fuel. You can take extra jerry cans of fuel but you can't transport electricity the same way. Batteries are bulky and expensive to produce and transport. Three, battery life. You get no range for electric powdered cars. 40 miles is about the max for a full charge. Most people travel close to 40 miles one way to work. Doesn't work for our economy. Everything is transported by truck over long distance. Also during disasters, electricity is easily cut of during storms, quakes, tornadoes, etc... You can stock up on gasoline but you can do so with electricity. You can still manually pump fuel out of tanks but if you have no electricity flowing through the power lines you have no enegry for an electric car.

What you are saying is about 30 years out of date. 40 Miles Max was the limit in the 1970s. Todays cars can do over 200 miles on a single charge. The technology is so improved you even have Shell Oil (yes an oil company) discussing their new battery technology. 200 miles is more than enough for short distance runs, which are 80 percent of Americas driving habits. Battery technology is so vastly improved oil companies such as shell are already pushing the technology.

What we need for a alternative fuel source is possibly hydrogen or maybe some other easy transportable and productional fuel.
 
I've heard 3 to 7 years.
Had it been authorized before, we would be using our own stuff now. With the prices out of control, the used to be issues don't seem all that important these days compared to us giving terrorists 70 to 150 bucks a pop.
 
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