Brokh. Heff. Bataillon No. 18?

cullion

cullion

Active member
I have a sword, not sure from what era, that has an inscription on both sides. It's a German-make and on one side reads "Grokh. Heff. Train Bataillon No. 18" and on the other reads "Bur Grinnerung an meine Bienftzeit." It's hard to read the lettering because it is very fancy script. If anyone has any information on what the Grokh. Heff. Train Bataillon is or what the inscriptions actually mean, please be of help. Thanks.
 
I've posted this question on a Google Groups thign, and I've gotten somewhat of a response...

The actual lettering is "Zur grinnerung an meine bienftzeit." It means "Remember Our Service." It's apparently a saber given as a retirement present to a German army Captain. That's as far as my information goes.
 
Oh, crap, forgot to repost with the pictures..

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Um, hi.

My dad grew up in a small town in South Western Germany, near the border to France. His dad, my grandfather, fought in World War II for the German army. When he died, my brother received a sword a lot like the one you described. It was a ceremonial dress sword inscribed with the same words, "Bur Grinnerung Dienstzeit" on one side and his army section thing (I don't know what to call it, I don't know anything about the military) on the other.
 
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Fur Grinnerung an meine Bienftzeit

For Cullen and anyone interested: I've been trying to find information on some of my dad's WWII German items and ran across this post. I have joined the forum but have not been able to post to the welcome site yet. Hope to figure that out soon. I'm a vet's daughter and an ex-USAF wife of many years but never served directly myself although I've worked for 3 branches of the US military. My dad brought home a dress sword and scabbord, black, very plain but with the eagle head on top of the hilt. HOWEVER, when you pull the blade, it also has that fancy Teutonic script which I puzzled out to be "Fur Grinnerung an meine Bienftzeit". Babelfish gives a literal translation of "for memory of my Bienftzeit". Could not get a translation for Bienftzeit at all. Just below the base of the hilt but on the blade itself, my sword has "JOH. HILLER" and below that "BAD CAANSTAAT". Further research reveals an Army hospital (there many years apparently) in an area of Stuttgart named Bad Caanstaat. Mine also has a line saying "Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25" and below that "Kornweftheim". If you see this post and have any more information or if anyone reading this does, would love to hear from you. I also have a knife/fork set with an stag horn handle that I'd like to have information on if anyone knows anything about them. If I have any replies to this post, I'll be glad to add photos. :cheers:
 
I would like to see pictures if you have them although I think you need 10 or so posts to be able to post pictures, while I could try a really horrible translation I am sure you would sooner hear from Der Alte who can probably tell you a lot more about the item than I ever will.

Personally I would have expected something more along the lines of Zur Erinnerung an meine Dienstzeit.

I have never heard of Bienftzeit but as I recall zeit translates to time and I had initially thought it may be a misreading of Service which would have been Dienst but as my German is awful I will leave it to someone that knows more than the basic swear words.

:)
 
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German Dress Bayonet

Monty, tried to send a reply yesterday with photos and apparently it did not go through. If this is allowed, three photos are available at
http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/t...otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

That's a terribly long URL but it's supposed to cut and paste. We'll see. Have learned a bit more since my last post. The phrase is apparently something like "In Memory of My Military Service" but that's not a positive ID. "Bad Cannstatt" is an area in Stuttgart (probably where the blade was manufactured) and Kornwestheim (below the division, batallion, etc.) is a town 10 clicks north of Stuttgart. That jives with my Dad's talk that he was behind the lines for a while and was also near France. Have not been able to find any mention of an Abteilung 25, lots of other numbers, but no 25. Hope you get to view the photos. Stormy
 
Well I can help you with information on Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25 and the good news is that it helps date your item.

Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25 was formed as an anti-tank battalion, part of the 25th Infantry Division in Ludwigsburg on 1 Apr 1936.

However on the 15th of November 1940 the 25th Infantry Division was re-designated the 25th Infantry Division Motorised and Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25 became Panzerjäger-Abteilung 25.

Then in June 1943 the 25. Infanterie-Division (mot) was restructured again into the 25th Panzergrenadier-Division and Panzerjäger-Abteilung 25. became the 125th Panzerjäger Battalion.

This unit fought primarily on the Eastern front and was destroyed in the encirclement of Minsk in July 1944, it was reformed Oct 1944.
It fought in France Oct 1944 - Jan 1945 and in eastern Germany Jan - May 1945. Most of the survivors of this division managed to surrender to western Allies.

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On to the next point, are you sure what you have is a dress sword?
It looks very much like a dress K98 Bayonet to me and according to the sources I have the "JOH. HILLER", "BAD CAANSTAAT" is the name and location of the retailer, there are two types of bayonet short which is 13 inches and long which is 16 inches.

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And last but not least... the blade should read
"Zur Erinnerung an meine Dienstzeit Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 25" which has a literal translation of "In memory of my service Anti-Tank Battalion 25" and since the text is on a frosted panel it can only have been made after 1938 (the frosted etch panel with the "potted plant" bookend borders was used after 1938).

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So to cut a long story short your item must by default be dated somewhere between 1939 and 15th of November 1940.

The source for this information was:
1) German Etched Dress Bayonets 1933-1945 by Wayne H Techet.
2) Wilhelm Schrode - Geschichte der 25. Division: Die Wiederaufstellung der 25. Pz.Gren.Div.
 
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stormy said:
For Cullen and anyone interested: I've been trying to find information on some of my dad's WWII German items and ran across this post. I have joined the forum but have not been able to post to the welcome site yet. Hope to figure that out soon. I'm a vet's daughter and an ex-USAF wife of many years but never served directly myself although I've worked for 3 branches of the US military. My dad brought home a dress sword and scabbord, black, very plain but with the eagle head on top of the hilt. HOWEVER, when you pull the blade, it also has that fancy Teutonic script which I puzzled out to be "Fur Grinnerung an meine Bienftzeit". Babelfish gives a literal translation of "for memory of my Bienftzeit". Could not get a translation for Bienftzeit at all. Just below the base of the hilt but on the blade itself, my sword has "JOH. HILLER" and below that "BAD CAANSTAAT". Further research reveals an Army hospital (there many years apparently) in an area of Stuttgart named Bad Caanstaat. Mine also has a line saying "Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25" and below that "Kornweftheim". If you see this post and have any more information or if anyone reading this does, would love to hear from you. I also have a knife/fork set with an stag horn handle that I'd like to have information on if anyone knows anything about them. If I have any replies to this post, I'll be glad to add photos. :cheers:
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It says Zur Erinnerung an meine dienstzeit = In memory of my time in service, most likely.

JOH. HILLER is the manufacturer.

Bad Cannstatt is a City district in the city of Stuttgart.

Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25 was originally established as Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 42 on 15 October 1935 in Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt subject to 15. Infanterie-Division. 6 October 1936 renumbered as Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 25 and subject to 25. Infanterie-Division. Renumbered again 1 April 1940 as Panzerjäger-Abteilung 25.

Kornweftheim = Kornwestheim

Kornwestheim is a town in the district of Ludwigsburg, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is situated about 10 km north of Stuttgart and was the unit garrison town.

So I can only confirm your information.
 
stormy said:
For Cullen and anyone interested: I've been trying to find information on some of my dad's WWII German items and ran across this post. I have joined the forum but have not been able to post to the welcome site yet. Hope to figure that out soon. I'm a vet's daughter and an ex-USAF wife of many years but never served directly myself although I've worked for 3 branches of the US military. My dad brought home a dress sword and scabbord, black, very plain but with the eagle head on top of the hilt. HOWEVER, when you pull the blade, it also has that fancy Teutonic script which I puzzled out to be "Fur Grinnerung an meine Bienftzeit". Babelfish gives a literal translation of "for memory of my Bienftzeit". Could not get a translation for Bienftzeit at all. Just below the base of the hilt but on the blade itself, my sword has "JOH. HILLER" and below that "BAD CAANSTAAT". Further research reveals an Army hospital (there many years apparently) in an area of Stuttgart named Bad Caanstaat. Mine also has a line saying "Panzer - Abwehr - Abteilung 25" and below that "Kornweftheim". If you see this post and have any more information or if anyone reading this does, would love to hear from you. I also have a knife/fork set with an stag horn handle that I'd like to have information on if anyone knows anything about them. If I have any replies to this post, I'll be glad to add photos. :cheers:
Click to expand...
I´M German Translation:" Zur Erinnerung an meine Dienstzeit", and its Bad Cannstatt near stuttgart i think its old german writing called "Sütterlin"there a differrent letters to the modern style. also Kornwestheim
 
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