Team Infidel
Forum Spin Doctor
NBC; FNC; CNN
June 17, 2008 NBC Nightly News, 7:00 PM
BRIAN WILLIAMS: There was a contentious hearing today on Capitol Hill. Top Pentagon officials coming under fire on the question of who approved abusive interrogation techniques on prisoners in American hands in Iraq and elsewhere since 9/11.
Our report tonight from NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski.
JIM MIKLASZWESKI: Nearly six years ago, when U.S. interrogators couldn’t get enough information from detainees at Guantanamo Bay, the Pentagon approved new tougher interrogation techniques.
But today before lawmakers, the Pentagon’s top lawyer at the time, William Haynes, proved even harder to break.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL: First off, my memory is not great. I don’t have firsthand knowledge of who made up the list.
MIKLASZWESKI: The list approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld included sleep deprivation, use of dogs, and stripping detainees of their clothing – techniques which lawmakers claim violate the Geneva Convention and migrated to Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The military says it learned the tactics from the enemy in Vietnam and the Iran hostage crisis. Many military lawyers, however, strongly oppose their use at Guantanamo Bay.
ALBERTO MORA, FORMER NAVY GENERAL COUNSEL: Our nation’s policy decision to use so-called harsh interrogation techniques during the war on terror was a mistake of massive proportions. It damaged and continues to damage our nation.
MIKLASZWESKI: But witnesses testified that Haynes stopped the military’s legal review of the new techniques.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): The errors that resulted in those opinions have caused this country tremendous security damage.
MIKLASZWESKI: When Haynes claimed he was acting on behalf of the military, West Point graduate Sen. Jack Reed exploded.
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): You did a disservice to the soldiers in this nation. You empowered them to violate basic conditions which every soldier respects. You degraded the integrity of the United States military. And I’ve finished my questions.
MIKLASZWESKI: Lawmakers want to hold top Defense officials accountable for detainee abuse, but after grilling Pentagon lawyers, one senator said, it’s like chasing ghosts.
Jim Miklaszewski, NBC New, the Pentagon.
Special Report With Brit Hume (FNC), 6:00 PM
BRIT HUME: It was a day of finger-pointing and second-guessing on Capitol Hill as the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing on interrogation techniques that were once used against terror suspects, but as far as we know are no longer employed.
National correspondent Catherine Herridge is here to tell us who’s getting blamed and for what. Hi, Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Hi, Brit. Though the tactics such as sleep and sensory deprivation were rescinded long ago, this hearing focused on the decisions that led to their approval in December, 2002, a series of decisions, according to lawmakers today on both sides of the aisle, that were irresponsible and short-sighted.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): When Secretary Rumsfeld approved the use of abusive techniques against detainees, he unleashed a virus which ultimately infected interrogation operations conducted by the U.S. military in Afghanistan and Iraq.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The question is how do we beat these people? Do we behave like them or do we behave differently? Do we marginalize them or do we empower them? And I would argue that any time that we can be associated with techniques that go down their road, we’re empowering them and marginalizing ourselves.
HERRIDGE: According to a Senate investigation led by Democrat Carl Levin, top Pentagon officials began putting together a list of harsh interrogation tactics, including pressure positions and the use of dogs, in the summer of 2002. And significantly it was officials within then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s office who initiated this work. It was not the result of a request from field commanders. Rumsfeld – he was not present to defend himself – was depicted by at least one witness as jealous of rival agencies which were more successful gathering intelligence.
The Pentagon’s former general counsel reminded lawmakers today of the atmosphere in which these decisions were made.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL:What I remember in the summer of 2002 is a government-wide concern about the possibility of another terrorist attack as the anniversary of 9/11 approached.
HERRIDGE: And Haynes claimed that there was real frustration detainees were not producing as much information as Defense Department officials believed they had. Of course, the Army Field Manual, which prohibits these extreme tactics, became the standard for interrogating detainees back in 2005. Brit?
HUME: Catherine, thank you.
The Situation Room (CNN), 5:00 PM
WOLF BLITZER: The Senate Armed Services Committee, meeting here in Washington, is demanding answers in a hearing on what are described as very harsh interrogation techniques. They've been used on terror suspects, some of whom were stripped, forced into stress positions for hours, humiliated, even waterboarded.
Let's go to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. He's joining us live.
What are we learning today -- Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE: Well, Wolf, at issue here is how did the U.S. military's SERE training -- that's short for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape -- which is supposed to help U.S. soldiers withstand abuse, become the basis for what critics charge have been abusive interrogations?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: The man in the hot seat was the Pentagon's former top lawyer, William Haynes.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL: Did I ever discuss SERE techniques with others in the administration?
The answer is yes.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): And what was the gist of those conversations?
HAYNES: I don't remember them any more clearly than what I've -- what I've just said and I cannot discuss it further without getting into classified information.
MCINTYRE: Techniques used in POW resistance training, like what soldiers routinely go through at Fort Bragg, include tactics like sensory deprivation, sleep disruption, stress positions, slapping and even waterboarding. But the retired military officer who ran the SERE program testified mostly the tactics were standard tricks of the trade.
LT. COL. DANIEL BAUMGARTNER (RET.), FORMER JOINT PERSONNEL RECOVERY AGENCY: They're used by police. They're used by priests. They're used by your mom and dad. I mean good cop/bad cop.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon lawyer, whose private concerns prompted then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to curtail the roughest procedures, says to call them harsh or enhanced is misleading.
ALBERTO MORA, FORMER NAVY GENERAL COUNSEL: The legally correct adjective is cruel.
MCINTYRE: Among the documents uncovered by the Senate Armed Services Committee, minutes of an October 2002 meeting, where it seems clear the top lawyer for Guantanamo has reservations about detainee treatment: "We may need to curb the harsher operations while the International Committee of the Red Cross is around," Lieutenant Colonel Diane Beaver is quoted as saying.
Officially, it is not happening. Now retired, Beaver testified she didn't recall what she said at the meeting six years ago, but denied any cover-up.
One question left unanswered -- who is accountable?
SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D-MO): We would like to hold someone responsible and it's like trying to cast shadows here. (END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Senator Levin's conclusion is that Senator Bush administration officials sought these techniques and then twisted the law to make them seem legal. Republican Lindsey Graham called it "One of the most irresponsible and short-sighted legal analysis ever provided the U.S. military."
The White House said, look, we are treating detainees humanely and trying to get information from them that will protect America -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre with that report.
June 17, 2008 NBC Nightly News, 7:00 PM
BRIAN WILLIAMS: There was a contentious hearing today on Capitol Hill. Top Pentagon officials coming under fire on the question of who approved abusive interrogation techniques on prisoners in American hands in Iraq and elsewhere since 9/11.
Our report tonight from NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski.
JIM MIKLASZWESKI: Nearly six years ago, when U.S. interrogators couldn’t get enough information from detainees at Guantanamo Bay, the Pentagon approved new tougher interrogation techniques.
But today before lawmakers, the Pentagon’s top lawyer at the time, William Haynes, proved even harder to break.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL: First off, my memory is not great. I don’t have firsthand knowledge of who made up the list.
MIKLASZWESKI: The list approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld included sleep deprivation, use of dogs, and stripping detainees of their clothing – techniques which lawmakers claim violate the Geneva Convention and migrated to Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The military says it learned the tactics from the enemy in Vietnam and the Iran hostage crisis. Many military lawyers, however, strongly oppose their use at Guantanamo Bay.
ALBERTO MORA, FORMER NAVY GENERAL COUNSEL: Our nation’s policy decision to use so-called harsh interrogation techniques during the war on terror was a mistake of massive proportions. It damaged and continues to damage our nation.
MIKLASZWESKI: But witnesses testified that Haynes stopped the military’s legal review of the new techniques.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): The errors that resulted in those opinions have caused this country tremendous security damage.
MIKLASZWESKI: When Haynes claimed he was acting on behalf of the military, West Point graduate Sen. Jack Reed exploded.
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): You did a disservice to the soldiers in this nation. You empowered them to violate basic conditions which every soldier respects. You degraded the integrity of the United States military. And I’ve finished my questions.
MIKLASZWESKI: Lawmakers want to hold top Defense officials accountable for detainee abuse, but after grilling Pentagon lawyers, one senator said, it’s like chasing ghosts.
Jim Miklaszewski, NBC New, the Pentagon.
Special Report With Brit Hume (FNC), 6:00 PM
BRIT HUME: It was a day of finger-pointing and second-guessing on Capitol Hill as the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing on interrogation techniques that were once used against terror suspects, but as far as we know are no longer employed.
National correspondent Catherine Herridge is here to tell us who’s getting blamed and for what. Hi, Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Hi, Brit. Though the tactics such as sleep and sensory deprivation were rescinded long ago, this hearing focused on the decisions that led to their approval in December, 2002, a series of decisions, according to lawmakers today on both sides of the aisle, that were irresponsible and short-sighted.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): When Secretary Rumsfeld approved the use of abusive techniques against detainees, he unleashed a virus which ultimately infected interrogation operations conducted by the U.S. military in Afghanistan and Iraq.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The question is how do we beat these people? Do we behave like them or do we behave differently? Do we marginalize them or do we empower them? And I would argue that any time that we can be associated with techniques that go down their road, we’re empowering them and marginalizing ourselves.
HERRIDGE: According to a Senate investigation led by Democrat Carl Levin, top Pentagon officials began putting together a list of harsh interrogation tactics, including pressure positions and the use of dogs, in the summer of 2002. And significantly it was officials within then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s office who initiated this work. It was not the result of a request from field commanders. Rumsfeld – he was not present to defend himself – was depicted by at least one witness as jealous of rival agencies which were more successful gathering intelligence.
The Pentagon’s former general counsel reminded lawmakers today of the atmosphere in which these decisions were made.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL:What I remember in the summer of 2002 is a government-wide concern about the possibility of another terrorist attack as the anniversary of 9/11 approached.
HERRIDGE: And Haynes claimed that there was real frustration detainees were not producing as much information as Defense Department officials believed they had. Of course, the Army Field Manual, which prohibits these extreme tactics, became the standard for interrogating detainees back in 2005. Brit?
HUME: Catherine, thank you.
The Situation Room (CNN), 5:00 PM
WOLF BLITZER: The Senate Armed Services Committee, meeting here in Washington, is demanding answers in a hearing on what are described as very harsh interrogation techniques. They've been used on terror suspects, some of whom were stripped, forced into stress positions for hours, humiliated, even waterboarded.
Let's go to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. He's joining us live.
What are we learning today -- Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE: Well, Wolf, at issue here is how did the U.S. military's SERE training -- that's short for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape -- which is supposed to help U.S. soldiers withstand abuse, become the basis for what critics charge have been abusive interrogations?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: The man in the hot seat was the Pentagon's former top lawyer, William Haynes.
WILLIAM HAYNES, FORMER PENTAGON GENERAL COUNSEL: Did I ever discuss SERE techniques with others in the administration?
The answer is yes.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI): And what was the gist of those conversations?
HAYNES: I don't remember them any more clearly than what I've -- what I've just said and I cannot discuss it further without getting into classified information.
MCINTYRE: Techniques used in POW resistance training, like what soldiers routinely go through at Fort Bragg, include tactics like sensory deprivation, sleep disruption, stress positions, slapping and even waterboarding. But the retired military officer who ran the SERE program testified mostly the tactics were standard tricks of the trade.
LT. COL. DANIEL BAUMGARTNER (RET.), FORMER JOINT PERSONNEL RECOVERY AGENCY: They're used by police. They're used by priests. They're used by your mom and dad. I mean good cop/bad cop.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon lawyer, whose private concerns prompted then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to curtail the roughest procedures, says to call them harsh or enhanced is misleading.
ALBERTO MORA, FORMER NAVY GENERAL COUNSEL: The legally correct adjective is cruel.
MCINTYRE: Among the documents uncovered by the Senate Armed Services Committee, minutes of an October 2002 meeting, where it seems clear the top lawyer for Guantanamo has reservations about detainee treatment: "We may need to curb the harsher operations while the International Committee of the Red Cross is around," Lieutenant Colonel Diane Beaver is quoted as saying.
Officially, it is not happening. Now retired, Beaver testified she didn't recall what she said at the meeting six years ago, but denied any cover-up.
One question left unanswered -- who is accountable?
SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D-MO): We would like to hold someone responsible and it's like trying to cast shadows here. (END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Senator Levin's conclusion is that Senator Bush administration officials sought these techniques and then twisted the law to make them seem legal. Republican Lindsey Graham called it "One of the most irresponsible and short-sighted legal analysis ever provided the U.S. military."
The White House said, look, we are treating detainees humanely and trying to get information from them that will protect America -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre with that report.