British public don't want war in Afghanistan

Yin717

Active member
Hope you read it right. Some of the British public don't want the war in Afghanistan! Mostly it's because they don't understand why we are fighting but I guess it's mainly because they think the reason is pointless. Personally I support the war but I was wondering what you guys thought.
 
The Brits have a long memory,... back to the days of The North West Frontier Forces,... and very little has changed.

We (the Coalition) are in Afghanistan as part of the plan to stop the training and spread of terrorists. The main reason we have terrorists is because we condone Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

Can anyone here think of a single country on the Al Qaeda hit list, that supports Palestinian autonomy?.............. It's not a coincidence.
 
The Brits have a long memory,... back to the days of The North West Frontier Forces,... and very little has changed.

We (the Coalition) are in Afghanistan as part of the plan to stop the training and spread of terrorists. The main reason we have terrorists is because we condone Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

Can anyone here think of a single country on the Al Qaeda hit list, that supports Palestinian autonomy?.............. It's not a coincidence.

Actually Spike, I think Al Qaeda cares very little about the Palestineans. They are merely usuing the issue as a recruiting tool, amongst the Arabs the Palestineans are not much liked, they are viewed as uneducated hotheads. The leadership of al-qaeda pretends to be fighting for all Muslims, but its really after power espicially in the places where they are originally from -Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

The problem with Afghanistan is that it has involved from a war against the Taliban/Al Qaeda to a civil war between the government and the automonous tribes/warlords who are incorrectly being labeled as "the taliban" or at least are not the same "taliban" as we want to be fighting. The real "taliban" is now hiding in Pakistan and a few other places.

Its precisely the same scenario the Russians found themselves in the 1980s, fighting for a weak unpopular central governemnt against people living in automonous parts of the country.
 
Well, why do you feel that these groups have focused their attentions on the US and their supporters, as the great Infidel bogeymen. There are dozens of other non Muslim countries around the world who don't seem to be attracting the unwelcome attention of the mad Mullahs or the terrorists, in fact the terrorists are using some of them as staging posts just to get to the US.

There are no terror attacks being mounted on the Kurfurstendamm, no one has attempted to crash a jet aircraft into the Reichstag that I've heard of recently. From what i read in the News, it certainly appears that the terrorists are well established in Germany. What's wrong with Germany, they are, a rich Western state, Infidels, and they could certainly be considered as Allies of the US. Yet,... nothing.... what is the difference???

What was it that made the Taliban and Al Qaeda, so virulently anti US,.... did Usama Bin LaLa, accidentally buy a case of flat Coke from 7 Eleven, or maybe it was a stale Twinkie that set him off???

I think too many of us can't see the forest for the trees. (It's not convenient).

"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."
– Osama bin Laden​

 
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A polling and research organisation ComRes poll suggested
71 per cent – supported this newspaper's call for a phased withdrawal of British forces from Afghanistan within a year or so, while just 22 per cent disagreed. Nearly half – 47 per cent – think that the threat of terrorism on UK soil is increased by British forces remaining in Afghanistan, while 44 per cent disagree. The position is at odds with the argument put by government ministers that the Afghan campaign was vital to preventing terrorism around the world – and in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-in-afghanistan-not-in-our-name-1820949.html

The problem with withdrawal is that al-Qa'ida may simply resurrect training camps which would mean that the effort has been a dismal failure. Iraq was an unnecessary distraction, and we should have concentrated our resources in Afghanistan. I think the war was too hastily contrived and we should have had provisions near the Pakistani border as well as with Pakistan itself to start with. The people and Afghan army should also have been financially compensated for abiding with the Allied cause, it seems to me that there were little provision for 'nation building'.
 
Well, why do you feel that these groups have focused their attentions on the US and their supporters, as the great Infidel bogeymen. There are dozens of other non Muslim countries around the world who don't seem to be attracting the unwelcome attention of the mad Mullahs or the terrorists, in fact the terrorists are using some of them as staging posts just to get to the US.

There are no terror attacks being mounted on the Kurfurstendamm, no one has attempted to crash a jet aircraft into the Reichstag that I've heard of recently. From what i read in the News, it certainly appears that the terrorists are well established in Germany. What's wrong with Germany, they are, a rich Western state, Infidels, and they could certainly be considered as Allies of the US. Yet,... nothing.... what is the difference???

What was it that made the Taliban and Al Qaeda, so virulently anti US,.... did Usama Bin LaLa, accidentally buy a case of flat Coke from 7 Eleven, or maybe it was a stale Twinkie that set him off???

I think too many of us can't see the forest for the trees. (It's not convenient)

Because the real enemy of Al Qaeda, what really what burns them up the most, isnt the US. Its the autocratic governments in Saudi Arabia and Egypt both of which are friendly to the US. Most of the leadership are exiles from their own countries. Ayman al-Zawahari was exiled from Egypt for his radicalism (he was involved in the Anwar Sadat Assasination) and Bin Laden has had a decade running feud with the Royal Saud Family over a variety of issues both religious and political.

What al-Qaeda wants to do is overthrow these governments and install a 13th centure Caphilate in its place. The trouble is that since these countries are allied to the United States, the US stands a roadblock to their plans, which is why they target us. They dont like us, but ultimately its not us their main enemy.

I have seen people like bin Laden (Saudi Aristocracy) in Paris, they are the ultimate snobs. They view those beneath them as somewhere in between a turd and a cockaroach. I honest think the people like Bin Laden care even less about the Palestineans then the Isrealis do. Thats why I do not believe for a second he is sincere about wanting to help them, he is using them like Saddam used them to further his own aims.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-in-afghanistan-not-in-our-name-1820949.htmlThe problem with withdrawal is that al-Qa'ida may simply resurrect training camps which would mean that the effort has been a dismal failure. Iraq was an unnecessary distraction, and we should have concentrated our resources in Afghanistan. I think the war was too hastily contrived and we should have had provisions near the Pakistani border as well as with Pakistan itself to start with. The people and Afghan army should also have been financially compensated for abiding with the Allied cause, it seems to me that there were little provision for 'nation building'.

I totally agree with you there. If we were to pull out now then everything we have fought a died for would have been worthless. And personally I feel that our troops are not being given the full support they deserve because of the public just deciding that the war is worthless because a men have died and not much has been gained in a sense. I must admit, I feel little assault has been done yet as said before on this forum we don;t the area well and from what I've seen on the news there is little supplies in Afghanistan to assist the troops in an assault. I think this thing though about little equipment going to our troops in Afghanistan is probably what has triggered the British public to want our troops to pull out.

By the way, I don't know if this equipment shortage is a problem for other countries but here is a news report about the British troops apparently being short of supplies. I couldn't find an actual report on it but there are many on deaths of troops that died due to low supplies so here are some of the articles:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7730820.stm - Captain complained of supplies shortage and died a few days after

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7677012.stm - Death of a Corporal due to lack of supplies

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8157978.stm - Lack of helicopters
 
Because the real enemy of Al Qaeda, what really what burns them up the most, isnt the US. Its the autocratic governments in Saudi Arabia and Egypt both of which are friendly to the US. Most of the leadership are exiles from their own countries. Ayman al-Zawahari was exiled from Egypt for his radicalism (he was involved in the Anwar Sadat Assasination) and Bin Laden has had a decade running feud with the Royal Saud Family over a variety of issues both religious and political.

What al-Qaeda wants to do is overthrow these governments and install a 13th centure Caphilate in its place. The trouble is that since these countries are allied to the United States, the US stands a roadblock to their plans, which is why they target us. They dont like us, but ultimately its not us their main enemy.

I have seen people like bin Laden (Saudi Aristocracy) in Paris, they are the ultimate snobs. They view those beneath them as somewhere in between a turd and a cockaroach. I honest think the people like Bin Laden care even less about the Palestineans then the Isrealis do. Thats why I do not believe for a second he is sincere about wanting to help them, he is using them like Saddam used them to further his own aims.
If what you say is true, why haven't we seen more attempts of terrorism on a grand scale in Saudi Arabia.

The last thing of any real significance to occur there was the attempted seizure of the grand Mosque in 1979 led by Juhaiman Al Utaibi. Nearly all of the casualties from that were as a result of the ensuing battles by the authorities to regain the Mosque. This was more of an internal faction fight than a part of any world wide terrorist cell. The old families and factions of the Arabian peninsula have been doing similar things for centuries, as seem more recently when there was an almost farcical attempt on the life of Prince Mohammad, prior to which was the assasination by Prince Faisal of his uncle in 1975. Neither of which could be said to be serious terrorist attacks on the scale of the attacks and attempts made on the US in recent years.

Al Quaeda is a fundamentalist Muslim faction who have played the anti Infidel card using the example of our support of the Israelis to prove their legitimacy in the Muslim world, without which they would be no more than just another small and relatively unknown group of religious fanatics barking at the moon.

As such, 99% of the Muslim world couldn't give a stuff for them, there's several of these radical groups in every small Muslim town, but what has set Al Qaeda apart is the they have focused the Muslim worlds attention on their opposition to our support of Israel.

Whereas the Taliban was essentially Afghanistan centric, and having seen how Al Qaeda had played their cards, they gained notoriety and support of the more incendiary Mullahs by tagging onto Al Quaeda's shirt tails. Having a cause is not always enough, you must gain popular support to get any real recognition. Palestine is the key to the lock for them,.... and us. The trouble is, that we are turning the key the wrong way.

What do you think would happen to Al Qaeda's popularity among it's present followers, if tomorrow they announced support for the Israeli peace plan? They would immediately revert to just being another group of radicals with extremely limited local support.

The sad fact is that we have bought this on ourselves and we feel that we can overcome it with brute force. Unfortunately all our dealings with the Muslim world have taught us almost nothing of their nature. Muslim fundamentalism has been around since Muhammad first delivered the message of Allah,.... and it ain't gunna stop any time soon.
 
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