A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The Libyans didn't exactly have thousands of SCUDs and artillery pieces aimed at New York City either.
BREAKING: South Korean warship sinking after torpedo attack from North Korean Ship.
Shmack
Active member
Do North Koreans have?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Aimed at Seoul.
Oh I get it, not your problem.
It's funny how people want "solutions" to problems that aren't even theirs.
Oh I get it, not your problem.
It's funny how people want "solutions" to problems that aren't even theirs.
Shmack
Active member
Emm... what? That's kind of too rapid thinking or misunderstandment due to my poor English. Anyway, you got it wrong, i didn't mean to say not your problem. I understand that as a guy from the United States you often come across different fanatics, revolutionaries, DPRK/Iran/Saddam fans, but i'd like to outline that i'm not one of them. So please, don't try to put the undertone into my words they don't have.
I was just wondering whether you were referring to the Korean 'ICBMs'.
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Good point. The US needs to get the hell out of SK and let them deal with NK alone.
Face it- you fear NK. "Why" is beyond me, because I would expect SK to have the capability of kicking NK's arse. I guess you guys will have to decide, is this something you're gonna keep putting up with, or are you gonna take a stand?
Just think, maybe if SK took a stand, ya might win and get NK back.
playstation60
Active member
Re:hmmmmmmm
Do you really believe that a nuclear armed NK is losing a war to SK and wouldn't resort to firing their nukes in a final attempt to say :cens: you to the world?
That's the thing with nuclear weapons, once they are in the equation, it is hard to remove them. In a conventional fight, I think SK would be fine, but I cannot say that a war between them would be conventional.
Do you really believe that a nuclear armed NK is losing a war to SK and wouldn't resort to firing their nukes in a final attempt to say :cens: you to the world?
That's the thing with nuclear weapons, once they are in the equation, it is hard to remove them. In a conventional fight, I think SK would be fine, but I cannot say that a war between them would be conventional.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
If it was Kim mentally Ill pushing the button I would say that he wouldn't hesitate, but there is another issue in this that no one really knows the answer to and that is how loyal the military is to him when push comes to shove.
I tend to think that you average NK soldier and Officer is perhaps a little more sane than most people give them credit for and as such will probably realise the futility of a backward third world country trying to take on a first wold nation and its allies and probably would not put as much effort into as people think.
I tend to think that you average NK soldier and Officer is perhaps a little more sane than most people give them credit for and as such will probably realise the futility of a backward third world country trying to take on a first wold nation and its allies and probably would not put as much effort into as people think.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The US's presence in Korea is not just about North Korea, it's about presence in the region and also limiting China's reach beyond its own borders. So I don't see a pullout of US forces from the region in the foreseeable future.
Now here's something that people need to understand. America has the luxury of having two major oceans separating it from most of the world's troubles on its east and west. To the north is Canada which hardly poses a threat and to the south is Mexico which poses problems of its own, but not one that would involve heavy casualties in the major population centers of the bordering states. For South Korea and many other countries, if something goes down, civilian casualties are guaranteed to be very heavy.
In the event of war with North Korea, South Korea will most likely win the war but will most likely lose everything else.
With China so nearby, a weakened Korea can mean a loss of sovreignty for any number of reasons.
Taking a "stand" is pretty easy unless it means that you will lose everything you have.
It's like this, it's much easier to kill terrorists who are in their own position, shooting at you. It's a lot trickier when they've got your friends and family held at gunpoint in your house, strung with explosives and you happen to run a family business. Assuming you're much better than they are and have better resources (as is the case), you'll probably win the shootout. You'll just lose everything else.
You will try EVERYTHING to make sure that your people and everything else will survive the ordeal. The only thing that could justify aggressive action on your part is if the enemy decided to kill everyone first.
Wolf
Active member
I agree with ACOM. I support any actions South Korea takes against North Korea, but I'm always wary when it comes to possible engagements. Seoul is not very far from where the initial frontlines would be. And losing (or receiving extreme damage on) that city could essentially defeat the purpose of having fought the war to win in the first place.
... That is, unless NK chooses to do something major first.
... That is, unless NK chooses to do something major first.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Right, it's a lousy situation but that's just how it is.
84RFK
Active member
Oh, it's just soooo tempting to pull the NK off the Christmas-card list and say sorry, but welcome back the day you learn how to behave in a proper manner.
Cut the supplies and aid, hang up whenever they call, and let China deal with the problem, it wouldn't take long before the Chinese grew tired of them and pulled the plug on the North Korean communist dream.
One can always dream..
Cut the supplies and aid, hang up whenever they call, and let China deal with the problem, it wouldn't take long before the Chinese grew tired of them and pulled the plug on the North Korean communist dream.
One can always dream..
as per saying: I better robber, but own....
irate2:
Wolf
Active member
Someone posted this link on another forum: http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2010/05/24/the-sinking-of-the-cheonan-we-are-being-lied-to/
I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
I'm not sure what to make of it yet.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I can tell from the first paragraph that this is a crock of sh1t.
South Korea gains NOTHING from this face off with North Korea and the last thing President Obama needs is yet ANOTHER war.
Disregard.
South Korea gains NOTHING from this face off with North Korea and the last thing President Obama needs is yet ANOTHER war.
Disregard.
mmarsh
Active member
Well, I don't think anyone is S.Korea or the World would shed any tears at collapse of the North Korean government, but your point is made.
The fact that the South has NOT retaliated yet is proof enough that they are trying to defuse the situation in order to prevent a second Korean war.
And if South Korea has no interest in a war, that goes double for Obama whose still trying to figure a way out of the messes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Personally I think this is a mistake because the north will interpret this as a weakness and might be more willing to engage in further acts of military aggression.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The North knows why South Korea would be reluctant to go to war. Large population centers are within North Korean artillery range. In any given war scenario short of a preemptive nuclear strike by the US, there will be horrendous civilian casualties. Figures are at around hundreds of thousands to a million in the first twenty four hours alone. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why war is to be avoided.
On the other hand, North Korea knows that if war does break out, their chances of success are next to nothing, and the South will go looking for blood. Kim Jong-il, his family and his closest associates will have no sympathizers in the South and they'd be toast. If that happened, (in my opinion anyway) a summary execution of those who talked in favor of North Korea in the past few years might not be a bad idea at all.
Something most people should know is that skirmishes have happened before and North Korea was almost always the loser in them. This incident is shocking because the opposite was true this time around. It's kind of why the South Korean military was somewhat unprepared to go on a rescue operation of such a large scale, they're just not used to suffering a loss like that.
So it's not always been a moment of weakness. Shows of strength have been given many times. Just not this time around.
On the other hand, North Korea knows that if war does break out, their chances of success are next to nothing, and the South will go looking for blood. Kim Jong-il, his family and his closest associates will have no sympathizers in the South and they'd be toast. If that happened, (in my opinion anyway) a summary execution of those who talked in favor of North Korea in the past few years might not be a bad idea at all.
Something most people should know is that skirmishes have happened before and North Korea was almost always the loser in them. This incident is shocking because the opposite was true this time around. It's kind of why the South Korean military was somewhat unprepared to go on a rescue operation of such a large scale, they're just not used to suffering a loss like that.
So it's not always been a moment of weakness. Shows of strength have been given many times. Just not this time around.
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Korean Seaboy
Active member
Firstly, the reason why the SKs are so reluctant to wage war is because Seoul is actually in range (not exaggeration) of their artillery. From the moment, war happens, every damed soul (including me, because I live in Seoul) in Seoul will face artillery hell.
Second, the only major population center not in range of their weapons (excluding nukes) is Busan, although the second largest city, is not comparable to Seoul. Seoul is like New York and Busan is like Chicago. Like this although Chicago is major, it doesn't compare with Seoul.
Thirdly, if war happens, Kim will fire all his wannabe nuclear missiles at SK. Yes, I seriously believe that will happen, given to my preponderance of the evidence that concludes Kim-Jong-Il is in fact, mad.
Fourthly, the Cheonan was definitely sunk by NK torpedoes. There was NK gunpowder found in the hole, there were fragments from NK torpedoes found in the ship, and finally, on some of the fragments, there was NK font writing. That's definite proof. Also, these were concluded by not only Americans and SKs, but also by other country's various experts. Unless there's a credible study to rebuke that, I will believe that NK sunk the Cheonan. However, I do believe that the sinking of the Cheonan will be used for political purposes, specifically the Grand National Party since it supports tough standing against NK. I do believe that the GNP was delighted by this news.
That's my findings in this post.
Second, the only major population center not in range of their weapons (excluding nukes) is Busan, although the second largest city, is not comparable to Seoul. Seoul is like New York and Busan is like Chicago. Like this although Chicago is major, it doesn't compare with Seoul.
Thirdly, if war happens, Kim will fire all his wannabe nuclear missiles at SK. Yes, I seriously believe that will happen, given to my preponderance of the evidence that concludes Kim-Jong-Il is in fact, mad.
Fourthly, the Cheonan was definitely sunk by NK torpedoes. There was NK gunpowder found in the hole, there were fragments from NK torpedoes found in the ship, and finally, on some of the fragments, there was NK font writing. That's definite proof. Also, these were concluded by not only Americans and SKs, but also by other country's various experts. Unless there's a credible study to rebuke that, I will believe that NK sunk the Cheonan. However, I do believe that the sinking of the Cheonan will be used for political purposes, specifically the Grand National Party since it supports tough standing against NK. I do believe that the GNP was delighted by this news.
That's my findings in this post.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
If it finally happens, I will be there.
Actually, Busan is in range of North Korean missiles. If the North Koreans load it up with chemical weapons, then it's still going to be pretty bad. Not like the Scuds that Saddam Hussein launched at Israel back in 1991. There are missiles aimed at Japan as well.
I don't think the Grand National Party was "delighted" about this news. It has done damage if anything else. The public perceives this as the tougher stances bringing about the sinking of the RoKS Cheonan. In fact, if you think about it, their opponents have more to gain from this. I personally like the current arrangements. Back when Kim Dae-jung and Noh Moo-hyeon were in power it was almost like Seoul was taking orders from Pyongyang. That is absolutely unacceptable. The military had to deal with North Korean incursions with their hands tied behind their backs and still managed to beat the North Koreans several times. Or have you already forgotten about the naval engagement in 2002?
Actually, Busan is in range of North Korean missiles. If the North Koreans load it up with chemical weapons, then it's still going to be pretty bad. Not like the Scuds that Saddam Hussein launched at Israel back in 1991. There are missiles aimed at Japan as well.
I don't think the Grand National Party was "delighted" about this news. It has done damage if anything else. The public perceives this as the tougher stances bringing about the sinking of the RoKS Cheonan. In fact, if you think about it, their opponents have more to gain from this. I personally like the current arrangements. Back when Kim Dae-jung and Noh Moo-hyeon were in power it was almost like Seoul was taking orders from Pyongyang. That is absolutely unacceptable. The military had to deal with North Korean incursions with their hands tied behind their backs and still managed to beat the North Koreans several times. Or have you already forgotten about the naval engagement in 2002?