BREAKING: South Korean warship sinking after torpedo attack from North Korean Ship.

[MontyB]

The North is bluffing.
They know if they go to war, it's over for them.

Yes but I think it is time their bluff was called, this nonsense has been going on for what 50 years now where North Korea threaten and carry out small scale attacks to get attention and demand fuel and food.

Basically I think it is time the West evacuated Seoul and called the Norths bluff because I have a strong suspicion that if the North Koreans were offered a decent meal they would turn in Kim mentally Ill's head on a stake in minutes.

 

[A Can of Man]

Actually it has not always been the case.
If a North Korean makes it to South Korea by any means possible, they will get food, shelter, citizenship, job placement etc. Still they have a lot of problems adjusting to South Korea but it's still better than being in North Korea. But only a few can make it over. So in essence, they have been promised food for a very, very long time. Hasn't done a whole lot in terms of the big picture.

Sukio, basically if war happens, everyone loses.
North Korea will most likely get rolled up and for the South, it'll have to do the whole "Miracle on the Han River" all over again.

 

[Yossarian]

But if the unthinkable happened, the North Koreans would be in the same, if not WORSE economic, and well, social state than they are now, the already famined country would not be able to function creating a enormous humanitarian crisis. Which would also inmpact the region, especially China, and South Korea, being as both countries share borders with North Korea, people would most likely flood to the borders seaking a better life, or maybe even just food or shelter.

 

[Atasas]

But if the unthinkable happened, the North Koreans would be in the same, if not WORSE economic, and well, social state than they are now, the already famined country would not be able to function creating a enormous humanitarian crisis. Which would also inmpact the region, especially China, and South Korea, being as both countries share borders with North Korea, people would most likely flood to the borders seaking a better life, or maybe even just food or shelter.

One of them "careful what you wish for..." to Chinese Government:arrow: alright they do intend to have as less of influence from anywhere else in region, but results dont do no favors as for reputation and even more importantly Security in the region. That is of cause if it is aim for such in there:idea:

 

[Shmack]

Hmm... was there actually any undeniable evidence of DPRK involvement? I mean it's pretty much strong a word. I've read about it today, they say there's nothing but a torpedoe propeller piece with some korean stuff scribbled on it.

 

[Yossarian]

Im pretty sure they would not say "yes, yes we did it", if you asked at this point, which is already the case.

 

[Shmack]

Im pretty sure they would not say "yes, yes we did it", if you asked at this point, which is already the case.

I agree, though i'm pretty sure as well that they wouldn't say 'yes, we did it' either if they have actually done that or if they haven't done that. So i wasn't asking at this point. My point is that i don't quite understand how come that this rusty piece of iron makes every1 sure that the warship was sunk by N. Korea. They found a huge hole in Kursk hull, but that doesn't mean it was sunk by USS Memphis. I was just asking for some more reliable evidence.

 

[A Can of Man]

It wasn't Korean words scribbled on the propeller. It was a serial number stamped using fonts used by the North Korean military.
Also, in the past, North Korea has usually taken full "credit" for their deeds. This time, surprisingly, they are being not only quiet, but have been denying their actions, when in fact it's obviously them. So to answer Sukio's comment, yes, they would in fact normally say "Yes we did it." Strangely not this time.
There's a lot of things going on in North Korea at this moment, including the imminent death of Kim Jong-il. The planned successor, Kim Jong-un apparently does not have power. This could have been some kind of power play by the North that somehow didn't go as planned (i.e. the reactions of South Korea, China and other powerful individuals within North Korea).
As for undeniable proof, I think so. This looks pretty much like an open and shut case.

 

[The Other Guy]

Here's a scary hypothesis. The European economy falls apart, the Korean war gains momentum again, and the North has nuclear weapons which they intend to use to the best of their ability.

Then what?

 

[Shmack]

It wasn't Korean words scribbled on the propeller. It was a serial number stamped using fonts used by the North Korean military.

I'm definitely not one of those who believe in conspiracy theories, but i still don't think that's enough for such a serious accusation. After all, it's just a serial number. I can draw a serial number. I just want to make it clear, i'm not saying DPRK didn't do that, it was South Korean provocation. I don't know who did it, and this ain't obvious for me. Of course, it could easily be DPRK sub, but it could easily be a tragic incident as well. Anyway, i don't think some retaliatory measures would be an adequate solution here. One should first make sense of it all before threatening war i guess.

 

[Shmack]

Here's a scary hypothesis. The European economy falls apart, the Korean war gains momentum again, and the North has nuclear weapons which they intend to use to the best of their ability.

Then what?

I think in this exact case it's quite clear: they will be doomed once and for all.

 

[A Can of Man]

So tell me what else would be the cause?
If it was an accident, what would pieces of a North Korean torpedo be doing inside the ship's wreckage? Or let's say for the sake of argument that it was actually an accident and the South Koreans planted the North Korean torpedo, exactly WHAT purpose would that ever serve?
So in the event of an accident, a torpedo that happens to be the same model that is in North Korean service and its propeller with a serial number stamped in the same consistent font as other North Korean hardware of similar nature just happened to get there by accident?
Is it just me or is that extremely hard to believe?
And don't be too fixated on the Nuke. It's their chemical weapons that are going to do the most damage.

 

[Shmack]

So tell me what else would be the cause?
If it was an accident, what would pieces of a North Korean torpedo be doing inside the ship's wreckage?

Well, actually by accident i was meaning that North Korean sub could fire without an order to do so. Maybe their captain has gone mad, or some1 has mixed up training torpedo and combat torpedo or what not. As you've said they usually admit their involvment in such things, so why should they keep silent? Maybe they're just afraid that no1's going to believe that this was an accident, so they just don't know what to do and simply deny any involvment...

Or let's say for the sake of argument that it was actually an accident and the South Koreans planted the North Korean torpedo, exactly WHAT purpose would that ever serve?

The same purpose as if it was DPRK: north-south relations go totally f*cked up. Do you think they have sunk that ship just to get it sunk? They have 22 other such ship and dozens of other ship. In case of war this single corvette wouldn't be of any concern.

 

[A Can of Man]

The North Koreans have attacked ships along the NLL a few times already.
Usually they are not very successful.
The motivation behind the attack can't be much different.
Their response is a bit strange but we'll see what happens.
The simple fact is, they sank the ship and a lot of people died.
I have a very hard time believing that a North Korean sub commander took it onto himself to attack without orders, especially since anything like that would mean execution.

 

[The Other Guy]

And don't be too fixated on the Nuke. It's their chemical weapons that are going to do the most damage.

Either way, if they do that we will pave them. And there will be no international response, because no one will risk Nuclear War with the US, not China or Russia or anyone, except maybe North Korea. And they won't exactly be in a position to.

Let's just hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Shmack]

The North Koreans have attacked ships along the NLL a few times already.
Usually they are not very successful.
The motivation behind the attack can't be much different.
Their response is a bit strange but we'll see what happens.
The simple fact is, they sank the ship and a lot of people died.
I have a very hard time believing that a North Korean sub commander took it onto himself to attack without orders, especially since anything like that would mean execution.

Ah, i didn't know about previous cases, that makes a change. Well, what i'm sure about is that anyway North Korea should give explanations, and if they won't do that i guess the US should better stop that useless and endless bargaining over their nuke program, food and oil donations and what not.

 

[Shmack]

Either way, if they do that we will pave them. And there will be no international response, because no one will risk Nuclear War with the US, not China or Russia or anyone, except maybe North Korea. And they won't exactly be in a position to.

Let's just hope it doesn't come to that.

Actually you don't even have to be that warlike. I highly doubt that in case if North Koreans go nuts China will support them, let alone threatening nuclear war. As for Russia, that is even more unthinkable, especially if to keep in mind that Russian General Staff has got battle scenarios against DPRK, and they have been working on their renewal heartily since the 2006 nuclear test.

 

[MontyB]

Here's a scary hypothesis. The European economy falls apart, the Korean war gains momentum again, and the North has nuclear weapons which they intend to use to the best of their ability.

Then what?

Tell me do you honestly think that the Chinese are going to sit by and let anyone use nukes on their doorstep?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the first sign of military action China didn't leap the border themselves and put a stop to it, North Korea is in my opinion all bluff and they are barking loudly but in reality they are on a very short leash, they can't do anything that drags the West to China's borders and China will not risk its markets by going to war with the West so my opinion is that NK is at greater risk of being silenced by China than the US.

 

[AVON]

Re: South Korean warship sinking after torpedo attack from North Korean Ship

Tell me do you honestly think that the Chinese are going to sit by and let anyone use nukes on their doorstep?

No more than the USA would allow Canada to be bombed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the first sign of military action China didn't leap the border themselves and put a stop to it

It would be interesting to see Beijing response, both diplomatically as well as militarily.

North Korea is in my opinion all bluff and they are barking loudly but in reality they are on a very short leash, they can't do anything that drags the West to China's borders

I agree, they want the world to back off on the objections to NK's nuclear program.

China will not risk its markets by going to war with the West so my opinion is that NK is at greater risk of being silenced by China than the US.

I hadn't thought of that but, it sounds logical. At least to this American's view point.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the first sign of military action China didn't leap the border themselves and put a stop to it, North Korea is in my opinion all bluff China will not risk its markets by going to war with the West so my opinion is that NK is at greater risk of being silenced by China than the US.

The destruction of the South Korean economy would be a world wide economic disaster!

 

[-- Dusty]

I bet if we sent a Tomahawk in to hit Kim Jung Il's bathroom in Pyongyang, he'd have a more realistic view of these attention games he's playing.
Reagan hit Tripoli in '83 (IIRC), we can hit Pyongyang.