Yea I know, seems kinda strange that we are in bed with China when we are secretly "still enemy's" with them.
BREAKING: South Korean warship sinking after torpedo attack from North Korean Ship.
Yea I know, seems kinda strange that we are in bed with China when we are secretly "still enemy's" with them.
simpz! in a bed with body builder/kung-fu master woman... we all know on what to expect:read:
mmarsh
Active member
I have a hard time believing the "accident" excuse.
I can think of 4 incidents the USS IOWA explosion, the loss of the soviet submarine KURSK, the loss of USS Scorpion and the explosion on USS Maine that were due to accidents.
Of these incidents all the ships were lost/damaged during a LIVE FIRE weapons exercise EXCEPT for the USS Maine. But USS Maine was lost at a time where the slightest error like letting coal fumes circulate around the ship (and ammo lockers) and igniting a spark would have caused the explosion. Today, ordinance has to be armed before it can explode, explosives are not as unstable as they once were.
Ships just dont blow up for no reason anymore not in the middle of the night when the crew is asleep.
And remember this is the Yellow Sea not the carribbean. Ther have been several minor sea battles between the Koreas, it was only a matter of time before a direct hit was scored.
I can think of 4 incidents the USS IOWA explosion, the loss of the soviet submarine KURSK, the loss of USS Scorpion and the explosion on USS Maine that were due to accidents.
Of these incidents all the ships were lost/damaged during a LIVE FIRE weapons exercise EXCEPT for the USS Maine. But USS Maine was lost at a time where the slightest error like letting coal fumes circulate around the ship (and ammo lockers) and igniting a spark would have caused the explosion. Today, ordinance has to be armed before it can explode, explosives are not as unstable as they once were.
Ships just dont blow up for no reason anymore not in the middle of the night when the crew is asleep.
And remember this is the Yellow Sea not the carribbean. Ther have been several minor sea battles between the Koreas, it was only a matter of time before a direct hit was scored.
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well, once again, lets pray , that you are wrong and conclusions will surface ASAP
Implications could be value of "paranoid" person to express right now.... or in other hand:
if all of speculations so far where wrong... russians have been influencing/playing about/arround... left over to be suspected
rattler
Active member
If you are not paranoid, there are a lot of sea mines in tha t area, not only reefs, and mines (especially old ones) are prone to go adrift off and on.
Also, captains are not infailable gods, they screw up sometimes big time (for some reason right now I only recall brits of the same class vessels that were "managed" to disaster, probably as I at the time of accident had proposed better use for them to the War Ministery; this by no means intends to pick on the Brits, there are other captain induced mishaps for every nation - JFTR, while they did not like my proposals one bit - I had proposed to personally take the small island right in front of my house off the Spanish and for the crown and asked them to send a carrier or at least one of the stranded frigates to defend the newly won territory - I got humorous responses on my emails
):- HMS Grafton: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/920457.stm
- HMS Nottingham: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-54173358.html
- HMS Superb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7422774.stm
Rattler
mmarsh
Active member
Latest news from the Media and certain members of SKorean government. The CHEONAN struck a 1950s Korean war sea mine.
Even bigger baloney than the accident theory. In the past 50 years whenever there is a disaster at sea its always the fault of some rogue WWII/Korean mine that is the culprit. There most be a conspiracy of 1940/1950s ordinance out there that's out to sink every modern vessal a float, I have lost count how many times this has been used as an excuse. How many times as this theory actually been proven correct? By my memory? ZERO.
More likely: the North Koreas purposefully floated a mine (or Torpedo) into a area used by the South Korean Navy. I will make the hypothesis that North Korea probably wanted to damage/disable the ship, not sink her and use it to garner world attention. Based on their silence so far, they know they went too far and are trying to figure out what to do next.
Rattler
Yes Captains do make mistakes, but running their ship aground is very different then a ship mysteriously explode without a reason. I think the South Koreans are trying to purposely trying NOT to blame North Korea because if they came out and said that the North Koreans attacked their ship how could they not retailiate? Basically they are trying to headoff a touchoff of a war.
Even bigger baloney than the accident theory. In the past 50 years whenever there is a disaster at sea its always the fault of some rogue WWII/Korean mine that is the culprit. There most be a conspiracy of 1940/1950s ordinance out there that's out to sink every modern vessal a float, I have lost count how many times this has been used as an excuse. How many times as this theory actually been proven correct? By my memory? ZERO.
More likely: the North Koreas purposefully floated a mine (or Torpedo) into a area used by the South Korean Navy. I will make the hypothesis that North Korea probably wanted to damage/disable the ship, not sink her and use it to garner world attention. Based on their silence so far, they know they went too far and are trying to figure out what to do next.
Rattler
Yes Captains do make mistakes, but running their ship aground is very different then a ship mysteriously explode without a reason. I think the South Koreans are trying to purposely trying NOT to blame North Korea because if they came out and said that the North Koreans attacked their ship how could they not retailiate? Basically they are trying to headoff a touchoff of a war.
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Korean Seaboy
Active member
Well, from what I've heard, it won't be NK. It won't risk a second Korean War just for one corvette. It's probably an internal explosion. It's 30 years old when Korea was one of the poorest countries. Development began around late 1970s. Also, NK putting mines and shooting torpedos through the 38 line? Keep in mind that the corvette was actually quite far from the line, compared to some ships. It's probably just an internal explosion. Yet a very tragic one indeed. Also, officials state that there's almost no possibility of NK. Just my thought.
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rattler
Active member
Re: Mines, the chance is high as I proposed already yesterday: http://www.businessinsider.com/here...t-the-water-is-littered-with-sea-mines-2010-3
Understood. This part of my post was exclusively covering the probability (high in this area) that the vessel hit a reef, especially as all survivors comment there was no sign of an explosion in the sense of an explosive blowing up (see my previous post about the initial survivor reports, a secondary from inside would still be possible after hitting something hard)
Rattler
Understood. This part of my post was exclusively covering the probability (high in this area) that the vessel hit a reef, especially as all survivors comment there was no sign of an explosion in the sense of an explosive blowing up (see my previous post about the initial survivor reports, a secondary from inside would still be possible after hitting something hard)
Rattler
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Clockwinder
Active member
A deliberately laid or errant mine is my vote. The waters are too shallow for any sort of offensive maneuver, so a passive tactic is most likely. Ships don't 'explode' even in accidents - the first reports have the most credence - close inshore to a disputed island on a known patrol route and all of a sudden the ass end explodes! The shallow water negates mine counter measures, and marine mines are very hard to detect and sweep these days.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
South Korea sinking its own ship to start a war that it doesn't want? Now that's fresh.
Incase you didn't realize, most people aren't crazy about having a war in their own country. In the event of war, Seoul will be flattened. And this will benefit South Korea how?
A mine is a possibility.
The waters where the ship sunk is quite violent. I remember when we trained out in the waters, we were always cautioned about how the current was very strong and could take you on a one way trip to North Korea.
Incase you didn't realize, most people aren't crazy about having a war in their own country. In the event of war, Seoul will be flattened. And this will benefit South Korea how?
A mine is a possibility.
The waters where the ship sunk is quite violent. I remember when we trained out in the waters, we were always cautioned about how the current was very strong and could take you on a one way trip to North Korea.
US to help investigation.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Actually the only way I can see Seoul being saved is by destroying the North Korean artillery positions with multiple nuclear strikes.
I honestly cannot think of anything else.
I honestly cannot think of anything else.
Chukpike
Banned
I can't see the US (with South Korea agreement) ever using nuclear weapons against North Korea.
What would be the point?
Making North/South Korea (or parts there of) unfit to live in for the next hundred years does not seem to benefit anyone.
I believe South Korea and the US could eliminate any North Korean nuclear delivery systems quickly with out using nuclear weapons.
What would be the point?
Making North/South Korea (or parts there of) unfit to live in for the next hundred years does not seem to benefit anyone.
I believe South Korea and the US could eliminate any North Korean nuclear delivery systems quickly with out using nuclear weapons.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Same, I cannot see the US ever using nuclear weapons against North Korea except perhaps if the North used weapons of mass destruction, especially against American troops. Aside from the nuke, North Korea has large numbers of chemical weapons in store.
Air detonating nuclear weapons would not render parts of the Korean peninsula inhabitable for hundreds of years but radio active dust would have huge consequences against South Korea and probably also Japan since the winds usually go from north to south. But whatever the case, it would probably be a lot better than having millions of South Korean civilians killed over the span of a few days.
The authorities that be are working really hard and investing a lot of money into rendering the North Korean artillery threat on Seoul much weaker. It explains why the South Korean military puts so much emphasis on counter battery operations, especially with extensive use of SPHs (to keep ours barking as long as possible). I just don't know how successful this would be since directing fire will be possible only after the enemy has started firing, and their artillery is apparently extremely well fortified. This is pretty much North Korea's ace in the hole so I don't think North Korea will make life easy for anyone.
Partisan
Active member
It would be political and world suicide for the US to use nuclear weapons against the N. Koreans. The impact would be felt well beyond the Asian area, as this is a fertile fishing area, which creates exports around the world.
This whole incident is eventually going to be put down to the"normal cost of doing business", repugnant though that is. The N Koreans keep playing a wonderful game of brinksmanship, which will sooner or later come back and bite them, but at the moment everyone has their eyes elsewhere, which is probably why the N Koreans are creating incidents every couple of months.
Did anyone note that a fishing ship was also lost in the rescue operation? In my opinion both of these were mines, the N Koreans lose nothing by floating them out in areas of high naval activity, apart from being inscrutable, they can also claim ignorance.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
No, the loss of life in the rescue operation with the other ship was due to a collision, so it wasn't a mine. Unless they've changed the story and I haven't kept up.
Political suicide is a fairly common theme when it comes to this region.
Political suicide is a fairly common theme when it comes to this region.
I disagree.
Tell the NK people to side with SK and they get food.
And SK will win within days.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Been saying that for a long time.
Apparently doesn't work that way.
Apparently doesn't work that way.