Originally Posted by tetvet

I was a door gunner with the 116th ahc ( assault helicopter company ) call sign Hornets I flew on Hornet 32 based at ( NOT AROUND ) Cu Chi , we operated in the Iron Triangle and War Zone C . The VN war was lost because one participant knew how to fight a war and the other knew how to win a war .

I assume you mean we the US won in combat but they the NV and VC won by persistence and politics. They certainly didn't have the hearts of everybody tons tried to get out when Saigon fell fearing for their lives at the hands of the new regime.

We may be talking about two different animals here communism and Islam both have agenda and goals , communism the west can define or think they can , Islam not so clear since the west feels that Islam is nothing more than a religion and not a culture this is where the west is mistaken Islam has its own set of laws and politics the artificial borders the western powers established after WWI , ie , Syria , Iraq , Iran mean nothing to these people , Islam is the common ground .

We really couldn't afford Vietnam and the rest of the free world at the same time there is a limit to everything and in my opinion Vietnam was not worth the effort we were supporting a regime that was corrupt beyond belief .

Originally Posted by tetvet

We really couldn't afford Vietnam and the rest of the free world at the same time there is a limit to everything and in my opinion Vietnam was not worth the effort we were supporting a regime that was corrupt beyond belief .

Thieu and his administration were a piece of work

The Company invented Thieu after they got ride of Diem who was not a company man or at least not a !00% man so he had to go , a lot of cloak and dagger in Saigon , to what end I'm not sure .

Originally Posted by tetvet

Like many people I was born in the U.S. and grew up in Vietnam , I fought through the entire tet offensive 2 months of 24/7 , the U.S. won that battle and you might say the war in that time period , when asked how you could tell the difference between friend and foe my answer was simple you killed them all , it was and all out push to crush the enemy and Americans can be good at that if turned loose , so what needs to be done in the middle my answer is simple .

So you murdered then?

You could / can call it murder if you like you wouldn't be the first, but the tet offensive was a mean fought fight through towns , villages and cities , American soldiers were being killed by the thousands and anger flared innocent people maybe innocent got killed , there is nothing to compare it with in Iraq or Afghan .

Originally Posted by tetvet

You could / can call it murder if you like you wouldn't be the first, but the tet offensive was a mean fought fight through towns , villages and cities , American soldiers were being killed by the thousands and anger flared innocent people maybe innocent got killed , there is nothing to compare it with in Iraq or Afghan .

The bold is pretty much the entirety of the Iraq war...I'm glad you recognize that city fighting is nastier and more confusing than spraying into treetops into a jungle...

Really, I would say the Fallujah campaign was pretty close...Or the fight in Ramadi from 04-07, how about the battle of Baghdad, or maybe the triangle of death. Baqubah could get particularly nasty and Al-Qaim never really got under control. The one common theme...it was ALL in the city. If you look at the average casualty percentages for the grunts, it was about the same. I lost half my platoon killed or wounded on my first tour (including me), and even more on my second. We just had better armor, training, and medical care (and even faster access to it)than you guys did. That's why more of us survived, not to mention there were a helluva lot less of us in country at any time in Iraq or Afghan than by Tet in 68.

If you were a grunt then it was likely more of the same...I saw my fair share of combat with an enemy one room removed from me...combat where we were screaming and yelling obscenities at one another. I have buddies who killed the enemy with their bare hands, and most of us had killed at least one of the enemy with a knife or bayonet...something I don't think a door gunner is acquainted with...and we still absolutely tried to distinguish between the bad guys and the good. So don't sit here and tell me that "we wouldn't know". You DID know, and you did it anyways.

Originally Posted by brinktk

The bold is pretty much the entirety of the Iraq war...I'm glad you recognize that city fighting is nastier and more confusing than spraying into treetops into a jungle...

Really, I would say the Fallujah campaign was pretty close...Or the fight in Ramadi from 04-07, how about the battle of Baghdad, or maybe the triangle of death. Baqubah could get particularly nasty and Al-Qaim never really got under control. The one common theme...it was ALL in the city. If you look at the average casualty percentages for the grunts, it was about the same. I lost half my platoon killed or wounded on my first tour (including me), and even more on my second. We just had better armor, training, and medical care (and even faster access to it)than you guys did. That's why more of us survived, not to mention there were a helluva lot less of us in country at any time in Iraq or Afghan than by Tet in 68.

If you were a grunt then it was likely more of the same...I saw my fair share of combat with an enemy one room removed from me...combat where we were screaming and yelling obscenities at one another. I have buddies who killed the enemy with their bare hands, and most of us had killed at least one of the enemy with a knife or bayonet...something I don't think a door gunner is acquainted with...and we still absolutely tried to distinguish between the bad guys and the good. So don't sit here and tell me that "we wouldn't know". You DID know, and you did it anyways.

Wow even though it's in a city, it almost sounds as brutal as the island campaign with the Japanese, I salute you.

JOC

You and I seem to have a conflict of sorts , send me a pm on your issues we can talk about it .