To Bomb or Not to Bomb to Kill bin Laden - Page 4




 
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Boots
 
June 13th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmilman
How can there be no innocence in war? Sure the people fighting aren't innocent (to a point at least, i'm sure they don't want to fight and die), but there are always people caught in the middle who want nothing to do with what is going on.

How can kids NOT be innocent? Honestly... Who really agrees with the sentiment that "in war there is no innocence"???

Darcia, you can't honestly look at yourself and believe what you just wrote can you?

Seriously, everyone seems to think that killing someone is no big thing, like it's some kind of game.

Rich.
Tell me knowing what we know now do you think that the assassination attempt on Hitler in 1939 at the Burgerbrau Beer Celler was worth while?

If it had suceeded it may have saved countless lives instead it failed killing 8 people that had gone to hear the speech (not all military), whats your call possibly save millions or let 8 "technically innocent" people grow old?
June 13th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
Another hypothetical? I don't know who the people that were killed in the assassination attempt were, they may not have been innocent, i don't know, i'm going off the original post...

Back to the original subject though: I have no idea how to explain it... It's like countering one form of evil with another kind of evil, it just doesn't work the way you want it to, and in using this evil method - in doing a misdeed that is - then we would be harming, not protecting, the very essence of which democracy and freedom stand for. How can it be justified? Do the deaths of the people in the world trade centres mean more than maybe 6 or 7 other innocent lives? How can it? Would the people who died that day want more innocent people to die simply because they are standing next to Osama?

Would they want vengeance? Sure they would! Would they want Osama blown into oblivion? You bet yer sweet bippy! But i seriously doubt that they would have wanted further innocent people to be killed just like they were.

Rich.
June 14th, 2005  
MI Blues
 

Topic: Innocence in war? Or Innocents?


Darcia wrote:

>Mon Jun 13, 2005 00:02 am
>Osama Bin laden is one of those people who the US Government wants >found dead or alive, they may surround the place in order to try to spare >the innocent,however, it would most certainly end in some inncocent >deaths. However in war there is no innocence.

to which Ozmilman replied:

>How can there be no innocence in war?.........How can kids NOT be >innocent? Honestly... Who really agrees with the sentiment that "in war >there is no innocence"???

I may be picking nits here, but you're both technically correct.

There are "Innocent Civilians" who may occupy a battlefield. That is, of course, if you don't take the position that any citizenry which allows a despot to come to power and condones his regime cannot be considered "innocent".

But there is an "innocence" in the world - most notably in our children, which is irrevocably lost when those children are exposed to the horrors of war.

So in that respect, Darcia is absolutely correct when she says there is "no innocence in war".
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Boots
June 14th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
But obviously you're not meaning to say that since they have been exposed to this violence that they should share the same fate as a soldier who is fighting in it are you? I get what you're saying though.

Rich
June 14th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
We have the US which lays claim to being a land where we respect the rule of law. In trials we have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And the accused are allowed by law to have the opportunity to defend themselves and present evidence and witnesses to that effect. And now they come with a "wanted dead or alive" bounty for a man accused of crimes that they supposedly have evidence for that were the self-same individuals who proclaimed Iraq to have WMD and Osama and Saddam shackin up together.

Why would they disregard their own laws in an obvious attempt to deny the accused due process?

Something stinks and it aint the hummus.
June 14th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
I'm pretty sure Osama claimed responsibility for it and declared a Jihad, or at least someone else declared one, that's why they're after him. If he's admitted it and he's hiding from them it's fair enough that they would want him dead or alive.

Rich.
June 14th, 2005  
Darcia
 
Actualy,yes I can believe what I wrote. I also see no problem in the killing of a few to save the majority, in that rspect I am not a Liberal, however Osama is worth 50,000,000 dead.
June 14th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Yes, he has. So be it, its the lawless wild west redux.
June 14th, 2005  
Darcia
 
Well in Flordia that is now l;egal to have a shoot out....God Bless the NRA.
June 15th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
That is just the damn stupidest thing i have ever heard. Dude, are you willing to look 50,000,000 people in the eye, tell them that their death is worth it because we've got Osama, and then shoot them in the head?

Why are there so many people around that are so careless about the thought of killing other people? It makes me wonder how much of it is truth and how much of it is the courage of anonimity, and the safety of the computer screen.

What i say is honestly who i am, and i honestly don't believe that that son of a ***** is worth one innocent life. Make him a martyr alongside the innocent people killed with him, and you only strengthen the terrorist cause, and only serve to strengthen the reasoning behind all of the attacks - because we would become monsters too.

Rich